June 6, 2025
Hey, we're back from a little hiatus because we were at Vancouver Web Summit last week (wowz) and it was great. In this episode, we give you a little review of the conference, highlight out favourite parts, and talk about some of the cool talks we went to (here's looking at you, Metalab). We also check out new AI-driven tools like Google's Stitch (spoiler, it's actually really cool and useful), and question quirky brands like David Protein. Plus, we discuss the future of AI in education and its role in our daily lives, how we digest information these days, and Elysse's incorrect use of self care apps. Lastly, we riff on the Builder Ai controversy and chat robot vacuums with Lidar (it's $1000 USD, yikes).
Elysse: [00:00:00] Um, it's usually always a beanie or, or a front face hat. Shawn: That's true. That's true. Yeah. I'm switching it up. It's just like a different version of Sean that I'm not used to yet. This is it? No. Elysse (2): Oh, sure. Shawn: What? It's burg. Delicious. I thought it was Beastie Boys. And then I like kept running it in my head. I was like, oh, dang. Elysse: A lot less cooler Elysse (2): or a lot Elysse: less cool. Kevin, you right there? Gavin: Oh yeah. Just doing my thing. Oh, yay. Oh yeah. Just yeah. Having some Tim Hortons in a muffin. Going for a rip. Do you actually have Elysse: Tim Horton's? Gavin: No. Oh, my coffee is upstairs though. Did I finish it? Hold on. I'm gonna go look. Shawn: Okay. Gavin: I Shawn: should steal it and be like, you finished it, it's done. Just dump it out in front of him. It's almost done, and I'm sad about it. Elysse: I got full calf today. Oh. And that's not a thing that I have been doing [00:01:00] recently in the last eight months. Um, and the first coffee, full calf coffee I had was at the summit this week, which we should talk about today. Um, but I think that that was fine because I was moving all day. So I was using the caffeine as fuel. When you're at home and you're sitting, it's less, uh, like that. So I'm buzz It's buzzing. Supposed to come out Shawn: on your fingers on your keyboard. Elysse: Yeah, I'm buzzing right now and that's why I was eating 'cause I have a bit of a tummy ache. 'cause the caffeine. Oh yeah, yeah. Shawn: Caffeine can do that. Elysse: Really not making me feel that good. Gavin: I feel great. Elysse: It's good. Good for you. Gavin: I'm so happy for you. Elysse (2): Extra rubbing. It is. Yeah. Shawn: Um, alright. Should we, should we click some stuff? Elysse: Yeah. You wanna talk about Web Summit first though? Shawn: Oh, on the pod? Yeah. I have no Elysse: quick recap. Yes. Went to Web Summit. Gavin: Yeah, we, yeah. Elysse: Oh, hold on. Oh, we might have to start over. My default mic is not the good mic. [00:02:00] Gavin: Oh yeah. I thought I have to leave Elysse: and come back one sec. Shawn: Alright, we'll mute my, uh, wait, she's gonna leave and come back. What do we do? Gavin: I don't know. Um, how are things? Shawn: She left it running. Oh God. Oh, it's recording too. We're on our own. Gavin: We should all, we should say something about her and then she's gonna watch this and be like, those motherfuckers. Uh, I dunno. I dunno. I got nothing put on the spot now. I don't even know what's on the link list. I was just gonna say, I don't even know what's on the link list. It's a surprise. Maybe some stuff I dropped this week if we were scrambling. Hey, hey, hey. Is this Elysse (2): better? Gavin: Oh yes. Much more. Better. Elysse (2): Perfect. Gavin: It's like there's compression on it or something. It's way better, man. What are you guys Elysse (2): talking about? Gavin: Yeah. Oh, you'll see in the video [00:03:00] the review. Elysse: The review. Is it a, you guys just did like a personal review while I was away for 30 seconds. Yeah. What do you think of that? This was my annual review. Gavin: Yeah. That's how we're doing it. It's eight. It's public async in public. Well, isn't that like a trend like work in public that we're, we're review in public? Elysse: I don't know. Is it? Gavin: I don't know. Isn't that like a Reddit thing? Like all these kids that have nothing build in public. Build in public. That's what it is. Oh yeah. Elysse: Yeah. Okay. So you guys were not talking about anything in particular? Gavin: No. We were lost without Jules. Yes, it true. The podcast was actually, it just got quiet and we're like, this is awkward. You're the anchor. Elysse: Okay. Web Summit. We went to Web Summit last week. Gavin: Yeah. In Vancouver. Uh, it was a lot of fun. Some, some good stuff. Some good meetups. Um. I was not blown away by a lot of the panels, but they were still good. Like the light show and the speakers and stuff. It was a cool setup. The Elysse (3): lights were good. Gavin: I, I mean, it was, I have a video of it. I was like, it was like a fucking techno show. I was like, what is [00:04:00] about to happen? And then an old guy in a suit walked out and I was like, oh, that was, oh yeah. Yeah. The Elysse: lights were cool. The, they, I think they really leaned into the lights and the, like, the, it was, that part of it was great. Like, nobody ever had audio issues. Shawn: No. Elysse: The lights was super tight. The lights were pretty, yeah. Um, I, Shawn: I loved walking the floor and getting all the swag. I got like three dope pairs of socks, a couple of new hats, uh, water bottle. Elysse: I don't know if it's the point of the, you know what I mean? Like, I felt the same on the first day. I was like, oh, I wanna get all this stuff. And then I was like, that's really not why I'm here though. Elysse (3): Yeah. Elysse: Um, and then Sean shows up on the last day and he is like, let's just do the rounds and get all the stuff that we can. Gavin: Nice. Yeah. You gotta do that first day before the run out. The good sway. I know. But yeah, I didn't get the Don't be suss hat from fingerprint. Elise donated it to me. My kids hate it, which is why I wanted to, yay. That's why I wanted it. I wore the one day Naima looks at me, she's like, where did you get that? She's like, I hate that hat so much. Elysse: So fun. Gavin: You can thank Elise for that. And websites and fingerprint. Elysse (2): It's a good hat. Yeah, good hat. [00:05:00] Gavin: Um, but yeah, I, I, I'd liked most of it. The exhibition downstairs where all the booths are set up was a lot of fun. Talked to some cool people. I was getting a little bit of like, ai, um, uh, fatigue. Fatigue. Yeah. Thank you. I wanted to say boredom. Fatigue was the word. Um, but you know, there was some really cool stuff. There was like this nail salon thing. Not that I do my nails or anything, but I mean, sometimes my kids do, but I digress. Um, there's this cool little like nail box thing that you put your hand in and it would etch or draw or glue. I don't know how the hell it works. I didn't get use it. Elysse: It carves into your nail. Gavin: I mean, I still tried it, but there was a lineup for it. I really wanted to do like a cool thing on my nails and, um, I never got to, and Elise and I were gonna go. And then we went back the next day and we realized at that point those little pop-up, uh, vendors all rotate every day. So we were like, yeah, we don't get to do the nail thing. Elysse: So they had three for people who didn't go, which is probably a lot of you or most of our a hundred listeners, um, they had a, [00:06:00] like three different categories for the rotating booths. One was like early stage startups. One was gr a growth stage, and the other was, I can't remember what the other one was mid stage. Probably Gavin: can, can I interrupt for just a second? Yeah. I feel like early stage is not the right word. It was concept. It's more like I have a laptop and an idea. Elysse: Yeah. And Chad, GBT and Gavin: Chad, GBT because most of 'em didn't even have a fucking landing page. They're just like, yeah, that's, this is my idea. I'd be like, oh, let's check out a demo. They're like, oh, we don't have a demo. I was like, why are you here? Yeah. Yeah. Elysse: Anyways, I, I assume they were there because they were looking for. Money. Like they were trying to find investors. Oh yeah, Shawn: that's, that's the whole thing, I guess. But like, we did that the early stage. We didn't, but we weren't like that early. We had a product I was Gavin: gonna say Elysse: what for quote robot or for pistachio post? All of them. P Yeah. Gavin: Oh, everything we've done, you have a demo or at least some designs, some screens. A clickable figma. Fuck. It was crazy. Yeah. Kids these days too damn lazy Elysse: was a lot of like the AI stuff too. You, we, we would walk [00:07:00] up and down these aisles and just like look at people and if you gave, this has actually happened to Gavin. If you gave, if you looked at somebody the wrong way, they suck you in and then you have to listen to their spiel. Elysse (2): Yeah. Elysse: This happened with Gavin at one point, and I just left him. I was like, Nope, this is yours. You're you, you, this is your responsibility now. You made eye Shawn: contact. Yeah, Elysse: yeah, yeah. Um, but you'd walk up and down and then you would like read the descriptions of what the, like startup is. And some of them made no sense because people were literally just throwing their ideas into chat, GPT and it would spit out sentences that were like completely. And I don't know, like, you know what, you know what I mean? Like, you would read something and you're like, this doesn't make any sense. Gavin: Yeah. Oh, that's like you're shred claims. Yeah. You should read my Shred claim. Ah, it's, uh, I, I wrote it and then like, I wrote that rough outline, but I was like, this needs to sound more scientific. So I put it through, actually it wasn't Chacha Petillo, it was Claude for Opus. 'cause I wanted to try its abilities and man, it, it went like off the rails on scientific. Like some of the wording is just ridiculous. I was like, this is perfect for government. There [00:08:00] you guys. Go Elysse: Lauren. We met Lauren who is, I can't remember what the company is, but she does the shred stuff. Remember? Gavin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, at um, at the after event. Uh, Elysse: yeah, Gavin: around the fire. That was fun. Why did we get Shawn: excited? 'cause she uses AI to do it. There was, uh, yeah, she said Normally Shred consultants don't excite me. But there was like, there was some, oh yeah. She can do it in three hours, which I don't believe, yeah. Three hours. But Gavin: I'm curious to explore that. Yeah. I'm curious. Her success rate, you know. Um, but it was interesting for sure. I mean, we've been going back and forth. With whom? Me now for weeks. Like I've sent them stuff they've sent me back and I mean granted they got all of our stuff claimed last year and it worked out great. We had no issues. So I mean if it needs to take that long to actually succeed, then fine. 'cause it's a significant amount of money. But yeah, if hers does work, then like hell yeah. I can turn it around in a day would be awesome. Elysse: Yeah. 'cause how often do you do those? Once a month? Gavin: Uh, once a a year. Oh shit. But they're significant. 'cause I have to like go back through all our, get commits, all our discussions, all our slack and like, essentially, I mean, I don't have to do that, but I need to verify it because if I [00:09:00] get audited on the claim, you can get in a lot of shit. Yeah. So if I need to be able to say like, yes, here's all the stuff we did, Elysse: huh. Gavin: Yeah. That Elysse: sounds like a pain. Gavin: It is a pain, but it's worth it. Elysse: Hmm. Gavin: Yeah. Anyway, web summit. Yeah. Overall it was cool. I do wanna give a shout out to um, shoot, I forgot her name now. Ja. Uh, is it Jane? The CTO of Metal Lab. I went to her, uh oh, what is her name? I said it's not Jane. No, Elysse: it's like Jonie or Gavin: G. It might something be Jane, sorry, CTO from Atlanta Lab. I do know your name, but not right now, apparently. Go, go with. Um, but they, her and her team did a really good talk on just like Jonah, using Jonah, thank you. Um, using tools internally at Meta Lab and like vibe coding and stuff. But they, their systematic approach from like concept to design to delivery on an internal tool they were building was really good. It was my favorite masterclass at the entire thing. So I just wanted to shout them out. Not that they need a shout out. 'cause metal lab is obviously Yeah. Notable, but still, I, I thought it was [00:10:00] cool that they went, came and like had a very, you know, frank and kind of open conversation about it. It was, it was cool. Elysse: One thing that I do wish they will change for next year and I actually got an email about, uh, web summit feedback and so I was gonna put this in. Um, and it's the lanyards and I am curious to see if that's actually feedback from everybody and not just feedback from Paul and I. Uh, well, there was, I think a few more women who related to what we were experiencing. But the lanyards that you wear, you have to wear them the whole three days. And if you lose either your landlord lanyard or your bracelet, you have to pay like a gr crazy amount of money. Mm-hmm. Um, just to get them replaced. But the lanyards, they have your QR code that you're supposed to scan, uh, to like connect with people. And they're so, they were so short that they were like right at chest level for women. And so you have all these people who are just like bringing their phones up to your chest to take a picture and instinctually, like, as a woman, you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, Gavin: yeah, Elysse: it's just so invasive. Um, Gavin: e even as, even as a guy, I was like, you know, obviously not for, you know, my [00:11:00] cleavage or whatever, but it was more just, um, like someone aiming their phone at my chest when I didn't initially realize, I mean, I saw the QR code and I knew in the back of my mind that's what it was for. But the first few people that just like whipped out their phone and aimed it at my chest, I was like, what are you doing? It's a lot, it's a lot. I can't imagine being a woman in that scenario. It's like, uh, excuse me. Are you taking a photo or are you scanning the qr? It was like, oh, I'm definitely scanning the QR code. Just one Elysse: second, right? Like, you just, I'm like, I'm sure everybody, I, I'm positive everybody did, but it was still one of those moments where I was like, I know. It was just like. Everything in my mind is screaming. This is wrong. Gavin: They should make them like fanny pack style next time. Like down by your waist there. Yeah. And you, you have to like get down snap. You know, so everyone's taking Elysse: crotch pictures. Yeah. Shawn: At least you would equalize the playing field. Right? That's I suppose, yeah. Yeah. Elysse: That's what I need is just to equalize it. Um, anyway. Okay. You guys wanna jump in? Shawn: Yeah. Flash form.com with no vowels. F-L-S-H-F-R m.com. I can't even make fun of that [00:12:00] because my blog is N-R-D-B-R n.xyz. Well, Elysse: flash form is shout out to me, Shawn: but Yeah. Elysse: Expensive too with the actual word flash. Shawn: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It would've been expensive. I don't understand why they did this type thing where it says we just sending forms with the weir. Like the Oh yeah. It's kind of funny. It's cute. Yeah. That's funny. That's funny's very funny. We just sending forms. Elysse: I didn't notice that. I wonder if it's a error. Uh, yeah. Form forms. Um. It just acts as like a bridge between your website's existing contact form and other communication channels. Oh, this is Shawn: the thing I was trying to share. Gavin, you were talking about sending an email from the website. Oh. And uh, yeah, so this is the thing that like essentially, rather than having a Django backend that talks to postmark or some mail server mm-hmm. Like you can just use this and it will do the email thing, you know? Cool. Elysse: Yeah. Those WhatsApp Telegram, Facebook Messenger, discord email. Uh, yeah. Just like ensures that you receive the submission in real [00:13:00] time through channels. Shawn: That's cool. Elysse: No code integration, multichannel support. Yeah. User friendly. I'm gonna Shawn: put, makes me wanna play tennis. Play with flash form. My keyboard sounds so loud on this microphone. It's not even a clack. Alright. Next link. Let's keep moving. Yeah, let's, okay. Elysse: Wow, those so fast. Yeah. Shawn: We're, I'm ready. Gonna fire through them? Yeah. Boom. We don't wanna bore the list. It's the caffeine coming outta my fingers. I wanna click. Elysse: Okay. Um, this next link, datas surf, Shawn: a browser that types. So you can think, I like how they misspelled data. Like I know obviously data do surf would've been super expensive. So D dta do surf. Elysse: Yeah. Shawn: Why not Elysse: AI powered tools, Amy? To transform how users interact with online content. So browser file manager, AI assistant, all in one platform. Um, key features, chatbot, uh, smart spaces. Uh, local data storage. [00:14:00] Universal search systems. Visual. Shawn: Interesting. I would try it. I've tried like ARC and I keep trying these alternate browsers and I'm like me, I dunno. I just go back to Chrome, but Gavin: I don't know. This looks pretty cool. I'm confused on the art. Yeah. Like why, why is there a pair, pair airplane at the top and then like the Gibble girl? I. In a field. What, what does it mean about a browser? And it typing for me? Elysse: That's a really good question. Um, I Gavin: feel, I don't know why, feel like they generated art with chat GBT and they're like, yeah, we'll just use that. The designers like, that makes no sense. And like Yolo, Elysse: there's gotta be a reason that they use the Ghibli girl. Right? Gavin (2): Maybe Shawn: it's meant to be human and approachable. They're, yeah. Oh, maybe because it's ai, like it's an AI browser. It like, and the Ghibli thing trended in ai. Right? It's reaching, it works. All right. Elysse: All right. Maybe, yeah. But like, can they even use that? [00:15:00] Gavin: Oh yeah. You're allowed to use your Gib art you own, right? Elysse: But like, isn't this girl the actual Ghibli girl? Gavin: I have Shawn: no idea. The RO girl or whatever. Kiki. Kiki. Kiki. There might be some, uh. Patent infringement. Action happening here. Trademarks, patent, whatever. Elysse: Use use cases. Academic research. So analyzing multiple sources simultaneously. AI powered summaries. Gavin: So chat, GBT. Cool. Elysse: Yeah. Content creation. Uh, designers and creators can gather, organize in SPO with ai. So chat, GBT I'm gonna Shawn: withhold comment until I try it. They could be okay. You know, like, 'cause um, I shoot for question, wasn't somebody going to who owns pocket now? They were gonna shut it down, right? Like Microsoft bought it a while back, maybe. Oh, I did like Gavin: pocket. That was cool Shawn: until they made it full of ads. They were gonna shut it down. And then I saw on Twitter, someone was like, don't shut it down, we will take over it. So now, like, pocket might stay alive or something. Um, but there's been a number of tools, Evernote being a famous one, [00:16:00] um, where you could just like collect things on the internet and keep them there. Um, and then add other content too. I don't know what people are doing now as like a, a. Like repository of things that I like. I like to think it's our newsletter. That's where all the cool links go. Internet planner. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, but um, anyway, yeah, so that was a total tangent. This browser, maybe if it incorporates something like that, I'm collecting all the things from the internet that I like and then using that to create new things that, like there could be something here. Elysse: Yeah. Gavin: I do like that example. It's showing right now for those who aren't watching it, like on the left panel, it's like kind of searching and going through YouTube video and you're taking notes on the right. But it's also like using AI to gather from the sources in real time. The idea of like visually seeing and scrolling and poking around, but also taking notes as like sort of a way to explore ideas or learn something like literature notes, like going deeper. Yeah. Yeah. [00:17:00] That, that is actually kind of interesting. I do like that. 'cause sometimes education Elysse: piece, Gavin: well, and also with Chacha, BT like, I like the deep research, but often. I feel too disconnected from the source. Like I haven't scanned it. It says like, here's the sources, but it's just like a really boring white paper. Mm. The idea of like being able to like, see them and interact and then capture and then stop it and be like, no, move on. That, that is actually kind of interesting. Elysse (3): Hmm. Elysse: Um, data surf is in its early stages right now, so it's just like a version one, uh, only available for desktop. So Cool. And then it has a subscription. I just don't know where the costs for this is. Gavin: Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. Well they have to pay for the LLMs. That makes sense. Yeah. Like AM's not free. Okay. Elysse: Oh, in Berlin. Handcrafted in Berlin. Berlin. That's nice. I like Berlin. We are Shawn: seeing more, um, software tools come out of Europe. Um Elysse: mm-hmm. Shawn: And, uh, I think except, I think that's cool. I like, well, except for Gavin: builder.ai. What's that? The one that just got shut down [00:18:00] because, oh, you guys didn't hear about this? No. No. What, what is builder ai Okay. Go to the site. First of all, what is it? Builder, builder.ai or io? No, I'm pretty sure it's AI because that was their whole shtick. Elysse (2): Okay, okay. At Gavin: least it's bringing up the link. There we go. builder.ai was, uh, one of the first like, we'll build your app with AI even though you don't know anything. Um, and raise like, or the valuation was like 1.3 billion or something like that. Whoa. Uh, they just went bankrupt. And the reason being is that their AI was actually, and I quote 700 plus, uh, Indian developers overseas that were working on requests real time. No, that's not, that's not a joke. It's actually documented. Wow. Elysse: That's insane. Shawn: Was the, was the idea that they would eventually train an LLM or a neural network or something on the Indians work? Gavin: I think the way it actually worked is the LLM would [00:19:00] process the initial request, like the concept. And then on that team, I'm gonna say team. 'cause I feel weird saying Indian, even though that's whatever, um, the request would come in, the initial code concept might be there. But as we know, vibe coding is an iterative piece of work and someone doesn't know or understand how to like vibe code if they have no te knowledge. So the idea is the initial script would get spit out, then this team would quickly iterate on it while it's like literally like processing v one of your app, please wait. They're literally programming it on their end and submitting it. Wow. And going through iterations like that, it, it's almost like that joke where it's um, that Google one where it's like as you're typing like the type of heads Oh yeah, yeah. Somebody in the back, someone on the other end quickly trying to like guess like what you're, what you're typing. Yeah. It was that, but like actually real. So anyway, they're being charged or tried for fraud because it didn't actually do what it was trying to do, but they also used a business. [00:20:00] That they owned to contract to that team to bill out to themselves or something like that. Essentially driving up their valuation, um, yeah, inflating it. I don't know the specifics of it. Anyway, so they're being tried for fraud on that. And then SoftBank, I think it was, that gave them, the majority of their investment froze, like basically all of their current liquid assets. Wild. And, uh, they filed for bankruptcy hardcore. Elysse: So I have it here. They collapsed mid 2025. Also crazy that we're in mid 2025. Yeah. Um, and it was financial misconduct and deceptive business practices. Elysse (3): Mm-hmm. Elysse: So, uh, yeah. Marketed its platform as AI driven, claimed that its Natasha system could autonomously build apps. Uh, the work was being performed manually by 700 engineers in India who were instructed to mimic AI generated responses. Mm-hmm. And conceal their identities. That's crazy. Isn't that's so Shawn: funny that the humans isn't that bonkers. Were. Prompted to talk like ai. Gavin: So one of the comments, and I don't totally [00:21:00] agree with it, but like now I feel like there's like this new wording, wording for ai and it in the comment for the far ship video was like, AI equals actually Indian team. Elysse: That's so funny. Gavin: I was like, Elysse: so this actually happened from 2021 to 2024. So it wasn't like a little bit of time. It was like a long time that they were doing this. Gavin: Oh yeah. They, they were like kind of first to market on like the build your app with AI team. Elysse: That's so crazy. Gavin: Yeah. Elysse: And they inflated their revenue by up to 300%. Oh, that's wild. Shawn: Oh yeah. That's just lying. Elysse: Yeah. So they got audited. Uh, wow. Yeah. Anyway, that's crazy. Sorry, Gavin: total segue. I don't even know where we were initially, but I You were talking about building, it was ai and I was like, oh, I just read this last night. Elysse: No, that's great. That's a good segue. Builder ai, um, Gavin: yeah, don't use it feel like, 'cause it's about to close down. Elysse: I feel like there were, um, like right, I dunno if you guys all saw these videos, but when everyone was getting into chat, GPT open AI [00:22:00] stuff like a few years ago now, there were all these, um, like YouTubers and influencers who would build like a fake chat GPT and they would be the human on the other side, but they would just like troll people. So they would ask like, I didn't say that. That's funny. Oh, it was really funny. Um, I'll have to sh find a video and share it. But it was like someone would ask a, like a silly question or just like a general question and the guy on the other side would just have like a snarky remark or say like, well why don't you look this up? Or like, I don't know. Gavin: Yeah. Elysse: It was just very funny the way that he Gavin: like, let me google this for you. Elysse: Kind of. Yeah. He was just trolling people. Gavin: One of my favorites was Meow Gt. Meow, GPT. And all it would respond is this like different variations of meows as your like the text response. So you'd ask it something, I'd be like, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow. I love that. I love out JPD. Elysse: That's so fun. Uh. Bit of a little pivot. We put this in random, uh, in Slack a few weeks ago, and it got a little bit of traction and heat, maybe, maybe not heat, [00:23:00] but people had opinions. So lingual, CEO says AI is a better teacher than humans, but schools will still exist because you still need childcare. I mean, this is a Shawn: little bit of click bait. It's a little bit true, and it's a little bit click bait. Like my personal opinion is that there are a lot of academic things that can be accomplished without a human in the loop. Like people can read books and form concepts, and we have YouTube, we have, you know, like you don't actually need children in physical classrooms, but school serves purposes other than academic education. Socialization, childcare is one of those. Um, so yeah, there is a need for little humans to go hang out with other little humans, with some adult, uh. Supervision, like supervision so that big humans can go to work and have jobs and clean the house. Yeah. You know, like, yeah. I would say the top comment on, Elysse: oh, go ahead. This, I'm just [00:24:00] gonna read it quickly. It's super funny. It says, so AI teachers will give kids assignment that the kids will complete using ai. That teacher AI will then use another AI to grade the assignment. Basically, you can remove the kids and the teachers from the equation. Gavin: Nice. Yes. Um, I, I agree generally with this statement though, like as long as you use childcare loosely. 'cause I agree what Sean said, like education and teaching is one thing. AI is probably already better at the vast majority of teachers just because of its broad knowledge. Right? Like how do you compete with that? You just can't, um, Shawn: yeah, I would, I would like back that up and say YouTube is better than, uh, many teachers, you know? Yeah. Well I just mean Gavin: like you can interact with it at a very precise level. YouTube, I have to go find it. Ai, I can ask specific questions and work through a curriculum anyways. Um, but. Like my kids get a lot of value out of like the social interaction, but also dealing with like success and failure playing sports. Oh, this kid doesn't like me. I don't know how I feel about that. They used to be my friend. Like, there's like life dynamic that you need [00:25:00] to work through and understand shit that isn't literature that forces you to like experience in life. And if they don't do that, yeah, they're gonna be rudely awakened one day Elysse: socialization. Gavin: Exactly. Yeah. But that, I would, you could lump that under quotes, childcare, because you're caring for a child that needs to interact with other humans and do the thing. So yeah, I mean, ultimately I agree with what he says. Elysse: Yeah. Um, what was I gonna say? I, I had something to say. I don't remember. Gavin: I think the ultimate test for anybody who has kids or imagine they have any, would you take, send them to a school he's proposing. I'll go first and I would say yes. What do you mean by that? Send them to a school. Well, he's saying like an AI teacher and the rest is childcare. Like the, the teacher is, you know, giving them the interactions and sports and stuff that they need. But then, um, the actual teaching is through ai. I would, I would definitely take my, send my kids there. Elysse: I am the [00:26:00] child of two teachers, so I would say no. But I also think that, I don't think that, my opinion is not, that it's not valid 'cause everybody's opinion's valid. I don't think, like I, I'm, I'm a part of the generation where I had teachers that had like tremendous impact on my learning and like who I was developmentally as a student. Mm-hmm. Um, and that like human component I guess for my generation is important. Sorry, our generation. Um, I think that that's gonna change. It's the same as like we had this conversation a, a few months ago when I. Gavin, you were like, oh yeah. Like maybe one day my kids will come up to me and be like, I'm dating an AI and this is completely normal. And be like, oh dad, like I'm allowed to date today. Like, you don't like, you know what I mean? Like mm-hmm. There's a, a part of that that I don't think I will ever fully understand that a lot of kids will probably understand. Do you know what I'm trying to say? Like, don't think, don't a tech Shawn: phobe [00:27:00] me. No, no. I am. No, I'm just like, uh, I'm just imagining simulating the scenario. What would the kids say? You're such a tech phobe dad. Like, yeah. Gavin: Yeah. But I think that's happened generation to generation. My parents don't understand half the shit I do right now. They're like, I can't believe that you guys do that. Right. Elysse: Yeah. My parents don't know what I do for work. Gavin: Yeah. I mean, mine don't really know. I don't think my kids know. Um. You know what I mean? So it's like, yeah. I, I wouldn't, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if one of my kids grows up dating in AI and there'll be nothing I can do about it. I'll just be like, yeah. I mean, is it your choice? What am what am I supposed to do? Yeah. I hope they're a nice person and, you know, have they treat you right? Good pixels. Shawn: I, uh, I was picking up my, my 3-year-old from, uh, the Montessori the other day, and she was sitting next to a boy, um, on a chair, and, uh, I recognized the boy. I was like, oh, hey, you're so and so, right? I think I've met your dad and the little boy innocently, he's like, do you work with my [00:28:00] dad? He's an electrical. And I'm like, oh, uh, uh, I'm not an electrician. I don't think I work with your dad. Uh, I work on computers. And he goes. Why do you work on computers? I was like, yeah, thanks for the midlife crisis, bud. Yeah, yeah. Good question. Yeah. Elysse: Oh, that's very funny. Uh, the last thing I'll say about this is that, um, do you remember when we were all younger and we had to get information through encyclopedias at the library? Oh Gavin (2): my God, yes. Elysse: You think of how accessible information is these days and how we don't have to go to a, like a book that was published in 1985 just to get like the most relevant information on a subject matter. But now Shawn: I don't know if any of it's true. So. Elysse: That's true. Shawn: Fair? Elysse: Yeah. Yeah. That's valid. We, but still, I mean, Shawn: did we know that shit back then? It was true. It was just harder to audit. We just assumed it was true. There was somebody auditing. Yeah. But it probably Elysse: wasn't because how often did your library get a new encyclopedia? Every 15 [00:29:00] years. So the information in those books was probably super dated. A Shawn: little dated. Yeah. But it also, things didn't move as fast. Um, I just wanna add some context to this conversation about education that both Gavin and I learned to code at a very young age and dropped out of high school. So, um, whoa, whoa. That's not public information, Sean. Yes, it's actually, Elysse: why is that relevant? Shawn: Just because our view on how necessary high school in particular is Oh, uh, is going to be biased in favor of self-directed learning. So Elysse: what if both of your kids were like, I'm gonna drop outta high school. Would you guys be like, okay. Shawn: I'd be like, I'll give you $50,000. Start your company today. Gavin: Yeah. If they showed the same tenacity that Sean and I had, I would a hundred percent support them. Yeah. That's very like, we, we weren't just like, oh, I don't want to go to school. We left because we're like, this is slowing us down. We can do better. Yeah. You're doing stuff. Yeah, exactly. I, I think there's a very clear difference. I'm not like, oh yeah, drop out so you can smoke pot with your friends and go down to the beach. Like, no. Elysse: I mean, you guys [00:30:00] also probably did that too, right? Oh, yeah. But at Gavin: least I had, you know, like I was working at the same time on my laptop at the beach while I'm smoking pot. Elise. God. Yeah. Elysse: That's fair. Okay. Uh, next link. Madic, madic Gavin: tiger. That's Shawn: what this is, right? Yeah. Madic. Robots. Robots. I don't know, this just looks Gavin: sexier than my Roomba. Oh, it's the room thing. Does it, it reminds me of Mo from Wally. For anybody that knows it like, looks, it's like a larger version of Mo. It's like, Elysse: it's big. So it's a next generation robot vacuum and a mop. Uh, dry Shawn: and wet. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Mark, you said that. Elysse: Uh, formal Google Nest engineers, um, built this bad boy and I guess unlike traditional robot vacuums, it's funny they say Shawn: formal Google Nest engineers because when Nest came out it was all former Apple Engineers. Oh, was it funny? So now its funny, it's like former Google Nest former Gavin: Apple Engineers. Former, former, former, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, and I feel like former Nest is no longer like a flex [00:31:00] because wasn't that stupid pin thing by former Nest engineers and like it was the stupidest thing ever. Like I feel like that's a liability. Now that was former Apple, that was former Apple folks. Oh, okay. Alright, fine. I'll accept Nest for now. The pin. Yeah. Elysse: Um, okay, let me get through this. So, uh, this relies on a bump sensor, um, with lidar, which is interesting. Uh, and it has five cameras around it. An AI to visually perceive things in its environment. So apparently it can navigate. Yeah. Better. I would love to put this to the test in the office because there's consistently cords everywhere and if microphone Shawn: cables, yeah. It has Gavin: an issue with microphone cables. Our current cleaner, just the vacuum just eats them up and we find it in a very sad, sideways position. Sad. Every morning Elysse: just gives up on life. Gavin: Yeah. Elysse: Um, dual cleaning models. So switches between vacuuming and mopping, which is pretty cool. I think a lot of vacuums do that these days though. Elysse (3): Yeah. Elysse: Um, navigation. [00:32:00] But 3D mapping and computer vision to how much does at space, how Gavin: does it cost is the real question. Well, here's our first purchase in a while. Elysse: Order now. Gavin: Alright. A thousand bucks. US or Canadian? Elysse: Oh, probably us. Shawn: Damn. Gavin: Real money. Elysse: I mean, wasn't the one that you guys got at the office that much Gavin: Trump Shawn: money? Was it pretty expensive? Gavin: Um, 1,095 Mercy Ships in four to six weeks. The ones we had at the office. I think it was 1200 for both. So, okay. Roughly 600 each. Dang. Um, I do want it. Elysse: Yeah. So this is, this is the vacuum. Mm-hmm. Pretty cool. Gavin: I like it. I like the idea of, um, especially in our house, like our dog and kids run out the back door and play in the backyard and come back in five minutes later and track a lot of like, stuff through the house. Yeah. Um, and ever since we got our new cleaner, uh, like the robot vacuum, it actually does a quite a good job of just maintaining, it's not like super clean, but there isn't like little bits of debris and stuff anywhere, everywhere getting carted through [00:33:00] the rest of the house. So I actually really like them. They're, they're great. Elysse: That's cool. Yeah. Somebody said recently that these are just as much work as having a pet. 'cause it's like constantly getting stuck places and it's like, oh, don't eat that. You're like sucking up a cord that I need, or, yeah. Gavin: Yeah. You're Elysse: constantly having to go. My kids save it. My hair Gavin: ties constantly. Like, I don't know how many hair ties it's eaten, but it's, it's in the hundreds for sure. Elysse: I, um, that's a little off topic. The other day I vacuumed up a spider and I have the Dyson vacuum. Oh. And I can see the, like, canister and now I can just see like a spider walk. I'm like, who's gonna empty this? 'cause I'm not. Shawn: Yeah. My wife makes me empty them. She's like, I've vacuumed up a spider. Can you take it outside? Elysse: Yeah. I'm not gonna Shawn: do that. It feels more humane. Like, I'm sure it's a little thrilling for them to get sucked into this canister. Um, maybe, but like, I don't know. I feel better about it than just stomping on them. Elysse: Yeah. I just dunno what he is gonna, you know, maybe he's just gonna make a little nest in there. We'll see. Uh, [00:34:00] mad robots. Get yourself a thousand dollars vacuum. Shawn: Smart vacuum. That's actually smart Elysse: apparently. Shawn: Yeah. Elysse: By the Apple. Former Google guys. Shawn: I have no idea if they're former Apple. I just knew that a lot of the Nest people were former Apple, but like I'm sure is cool. The hired engineers since then. So. Elysse: It's, it typed, well, it, it did thematic thing in vacuum, Gavin: in vacuum, vacuum font. Elysse: It's pretty cool. Gavin: That's cool. Elysse: All right, moving on. Uh, moving on. Okay. This is astri frontier.com. Uh, it's an immersive interactive experience that gets users to whose phone's ringing. Sorry. Shawn: It's mine. I was like, I was like, oh, it has background music. Oh, it's a phone. How is my phone not on silent is the question. It's wild. Yeah. Elysse: Uh, okay. Interactive experience that invites users to explore imaginative, fictional planets through a blend of storytelling, visual design and [00:35:00] science. I love this. That's cool. Yeah. Pretty cool. Cool Website too. It combines, yeah. Science fiction world building with interactive design. Uh, yeah. Oh my gosh. There's sound. Oh boy. Great. You guys can't hear this, can you? No. Aw. Oh boy. How do I turn this off? Off? Oh boy, that was a lot. Uh, yeah. I feel like this Shawn: is dope, but it's like, maybe not the best for the podcast 'cause it's one of these things you just have to click and see. You know? It Gavin: reminds me of like one of those old like, um, uh, like research games, uh, like where in the world is Carmen San Diego? Like that kind of thing. Oh. But like space style. Yeah. Shawn: I do love this stuff. I read so much science fiction. Elysse: Ooh. Which world calls to you? Is this a quiz? Shawn: Oh, cool. Elysse: A quiz to find out which world I belong to. Gavin: Yeah. Hufflepuff. It's Elysse: Hufflepuff. I am a Hufflepuff. Actually, Gavin: that doesn't surprise me in the least. Elysse: Oh, [00:36:00] slide. I love this idea that, Shawn: that um, eventually humans will go to space. I mean, we've gone to space, but like we can build these giant, eventually we'll get there like structures in space, like the International Space Station. I'm sure it'll just get bigger and bigger over time until it's like. Planet sized, you know? Yeah. Um, and then objects that are designed for space, like they don't need to handle gravity or friction, you know? Um, necessarily I'm speaking outta my ass. I don't know what I'm talking about. So don't take this as science, but, um, I don't know. You can, we can have these like human mega structures floating in space, whole worlds. And then, um, you know, so many of the science fiction stories explore this idea of like, space native humans, like people who are born in the vacuum of space. In space. Yeah. You know, in space stations with zero gravity. What does that do to your bones in your body? And like, um, I dunno. Interesting stuff. I like it. Elysse: Yeah. [00:37:00] Sorry, I'm still doing the quiz. Shawn: Right. Let's, let's click another link. I feel like, uh, our, our, our Hold on at home. I have one more question. I'll take this out. Inspires right. Hold Elysse: on. What inspires your creativity the most? Blending, she's almost done opposites into harmony. Finding be, we'll just do this one. Gavin: So I Elysse: just wanna see what planet I Gavin: am. You keep, you keep going. What, what is this again? Like I've, I've gapped out at the beginning. Is it like actually a game or is, is this the way you get into their website? You have to like, pass their knowledge test. What is happening right now? 6, 3, Elysse: 4? I don't know. I have no idea. I just wanna know what planet I get. I get this one. Oh, Shawn: for LHS Neat. Yeah. The icy world of resilience and hidden beauty. Elysse: Hmm. Cool. Shawn: You liked Iceland, right? Elysse: I loved Iceland. Shawn: Hmm. Elysse: Um, that's all of this did like, not that, that's not cool. Oh, it, it's the start of red dwarf.[00:38:00] I'm unclear. Shawn: Super fun. Its really fun. Unclear what is happening. Elysse: There's gravity, there's atmospheric density. Shawn: Yeah, let's move on. Elysse: Okay. Sorry. Gavin: I, I gonna, I can play with that later. I need to understand what the fuck that site is for. Elysse: I'll put it, I'll put it into, uh, moti around, maybe it's just like Gavin: a game design studio and they're like, let's just flex. Elysse: Let's just waste people's time. Gavin: Yeah. Elysse: Um, moti app.io. Uh, gamified goal setting. APT is app. It's app game setting home. Oh my gosh. Gamified goal setting. Apt designed to help users stay motivated and accountable. Fun. Gavin: Does anybody use these? There's so many of these out. Like I, it's cool. I like the site and it's, um, you know, whatever. Uh, it's quirky and I've tried these before. Does anybody actually like, consistently use those goal apps or, or apps? The design is so fun though. It is really fun. That doesn't matter if you don't fucking use it. Yeah. Yeah. I Elysse: mean, I don't personally. Um, Gavin: but have you tried one and not used it, or [00:39:00] you just haven't bothered. Elysse: Yeah, I have an app that is, oh, what's it called? It's that one that I sent you. Uh oh, Finch. That's what it is. It's where you're a bird. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, you use one, it's, Shawn: so you do use one? Elysse: Yeah, but I don't use it for goal setting. Oh. I tick off the goals and then I get coins and I buy my bird. Oh, so you're not Shawn: actually doing the goals that you're ticking off. So you, you're, you're playing a game where you get a dress up a bird, Gavin: same game. Elysse: Yes. Gavin: Got it. Okay. Okay. So Elysse: yeah, so it's like, do a breathing exercise and I'll like tick it off and be like, sure, I did one and I haven't done it, but I get like five coins for it and then I can go buy a sweater. Shawn: Wow. So you can, you can live with the, um. It feels dishonest. Gavin: Careful. Yeah. Moving quick, moving on. Moving on. Is it dishonest? Elysse: No. It's with myself. I mean, I guess you're Shawn: lying to an app. No, I'm lying Elysse: to myself. If you Shawn: can live with yourself, then it's okay. I wanna see birds and sweaters. Gavin: Hold on. I need [00:40:00] to download this Shawn: app just so I can play it. Um, you should link Finch since we're talking about it. Is it F-Y-N-C-H? Uh, FINN. Gavin: Oh, okay. Finch. Uh, Finch Self-Care Pet. Elysse: Yeah. Gavin: Oh yeah. Selfcare Pet is a pretty good name. Worse because it's Elysse: self-care and I'm just faking it. I'm like, well, whatever. I don't have to do Gavin: this. I'm a hundred percent downloading this right now. One sec. Elysse: Yeah. Self-care, best friend. And you're just a little Bird's get Gavin: my face 'cause of the microphone, Elysse: but you get stuff, I don't know. Gavin: Funny. Elysse: Um, so to answer your question, I, I, if I, if it had outfits, I'd use it. Gavin: Is this an app or have we discovered a a, an app, you know what I mean? Like not, I'm gonna totally segue not lying to yourself to play, but like these moments where you need to go back and interact. Someone has to have made like these cliquey apps where you go back and you, I remember playing a watering plant where you had to go back every day and your plant would grow, but you had to water it otherwise it would [00:41:00] die. Sort of like a tamagotchi. Shawn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure there are many digital tamagotchis. I used to play this awesome browser based game that was an RTS, um, but it was in real time. So like isn't that what RTS means? No. Yeah. Real time strategy. But it was actually in real time. So like if I started building a hut, I would have to come back in a couple of days. Oh, that's cool. And my hu hut would be complete, you know? And if I like my army on a raid, like it would take a. A few days for the raid to occur, you know? Um, that's neat. What, I think they might've sped up time a little bit, but it was, um, like you had to check back every day to see like which of your workers was done their task and needed new tasks and stuff. That's so neat. Do you remember the game, remember was years ago, a pretty recent, was this, it was medieval and it was, um, like top down view, like most RTSs are when it was also massively multiplayer in that the world like expanded as you scrolled, you know? Cool. And they kept [00:42:00] adding new sections. It was so cool. Elysse: What's the like as here's my thing with these, create any challenge, an exercise challenge to say, I wanna run four days a week. I don't like, I shouldn't need an app for that. Do you know what I mean? Like Yeah. As a human, you should have the discipline. Maybe I shouldn't generalize, but Gavin: I was gonna say, you're not the one qualified to talk about this. Elysse: Well, no, but baby I am because I'm just using the app as like a game, a fun game. Um. I can't find this app. I don't know. What is it called? Couldn't, couldn't you do this just to make, make a a plan for yourself and stick to it? No. Like why do I have to click buttons to, it's just the, the serotonin, the dopamine hit. Gavin: I can't find this app. Moti app. I'm just gonna go to the site and click their thing. Elysse: Moti app, Gavin: is it moti app or moti app? Elysse: Uh, moti app.io.[00:43:00] Gavin: Moti app io. I'm trying to download it. They're making it really hard. Okay. I found it. Scroll down. Elysse: Do you guys wanna see my penguin? What outfit he looks like? Shawn: Do we have a choice? Elysse: Well, I'm gonna show you anyways. Gavin: I'm so excited for the Shawn: sweater. Elysse: I don't know if he's wearing a sweater, but he's wearing Oh. So currently I'm on an adventure and I'm wearing a pineapple hat, a fishtail, and I have a ghost friend with me. Can you see that? Gavin: Oh, hold on. I wasn't looking It fun. I downloaded the app. It's Oh, that is adorable. Elysse: Isn't it fun? And you get to travel. So right now I'm in Paris. Oh. Um, what did you have to live about to get Gavin: to Paris? Elysse: What's that? Gavin: Nothing. Elysse: Oh. Um, that, okay. So the th I'll, I'll tell you the three tasks I have left to do today. These are kind of silly. Name. One small thing I did well today. I don't know. Gavin: Oh, you, we did the podcast, Kate, check it off Po. Elysse: Exactly. Yep. We name one thing I [00:44:00] like about myself, I'll glasses make something up. Glasses Gavin: your glasses. Elysse: And then like a breathing exercise. Some of them are just general tasks, like brush your teeth. I do that every day so I can check that off the list. Get outta bed. I did that to get here. Checked it off. Like very simple things. Gavin: Nice. Elysse: That are sometimes hard, but, Gavin: but you did it Elysse: anyways, but I did it. Alright. And I think I intentionally made them easy so that I can take them off every day and then just get new outfits. Okay. Stitch Stitch. Do with google.com. Stitch with Google. Whoa. What? Stitch is a experimental AI power design tool. Shawn: Oh, I heard about this. I've been meaning to play with it. So, so it says transform, it's like VO or, um, like Elle's vo. Um, it, it's one of these things, or lovable where you describe it and it designs for you. Gavin: But this one says like, UI designs for mobile and web app. So it um, does it make the code? Let's, let's try it. Do do a thing. Elysse: Design concepts and functional code. Oh, I know. Gavin: Make, um, make [00:45:00] a habit tracking app that's fun and playful with pet penguins that travel to Paris Elysse: habit tracking app. What was the rest of it? That's, that's fun. Gavin: Uh, yeah. That's fun and inspired by Tamagotchi or something like that. Shawn: Well, you know how to spell Tamagotchi from Har. Elysse: I think it's just a very phonetic word. Shawn: It totally Gavin: is. Processing. Processing. Oh yeah. Let's see, let's see. Let's see how good it is. More standard mode, whatever that means. Did this happen without even logging in? Like, I'm gonna be impressed if you get something by doing nothing. Elysse: That was gonna be my first thing that I was gonna say, because usually when we try shit like this, it's like, well, I'll only do it for you if you create an account. Well, it's Shawn: Google. They have the money to just let people poke at their AI fair. It is Elysse: taking a hot minute. Shawn: It is. Yeah. I love, okay, so anyway. Yeah. Elysse: Oh, whoa. Shawn: Welcome to Habit Pet. It's got various screens. Create an account, select a [00:46:00] habit. Wow. Hey, this is, it's not terrible. I mean, sharp. I've seen worse. Mm-hmm. Oh, and you can get the Figma, you can just click get the Figma. Gavin: That's actually really neat. Oh, that's great. Shawn: Does the Gavin: Figma actually, like, are, are they, um. I look at this, there's a profile, well, that profile Shawn: a, there's, uh, okay. I mean, it's, it's basically wire frames, but yeah, it looks very wire frame. Elysse: But I mean, could you iterate? Yeah. I ask it to like, Gavin: use playful colors and gradients and, and just see what it does. Elysse: Do I do that here? Where do I do that? I don't know. Describe your, oh, can you use brighter colors, Gavin: ingredients? And I'm just curious to see like if it'll keep the similar design with the alterations. 'cause one of the classic issues with these [00:47:00] things, even like Elle's vo. Yeah, just reinvent, make it a change or whatever. Change and it just like reinvents the whole thing. I'm like, no, no, no. I like, I liked the thing just, yeah. Elysse: Yeah. I wonder if it's gonna totally change it. Gavin: Yeah. Elysse: Um, pretty cool though. Gavin: Yeah. I'm curious about the Figma fa, I mean, we don't have to try it right now. Maybe we'll review it next week after we've poked at it. But like, is it gonna have whatever it's called en figma? Is it editable? That kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Like are they isolated components or something? Elysse (2): Oh yeah. This looks pretty similar. Is my Shawn: brain trying to work out? I mean, the colors are actually less bright. That green on the call to action button was brighter than this blade. It's true. That's true. Um, pretty neat. I'm trying to work out a designer AI workflow. I, I keep collecting all these tools in a notion document and, um, reading and watching and like, just trying to, trying to be like, okay, like if I was a designer just starting out today and AI existed, like how would I be a designer but also use AI to accelerate my work, you know? Mm-hmm. It's kind of an interesting [00:48:00] thought experiment. Mm-hmm. Elysse: This is taking a while and it, it hasn't done what we wanted. It looks the Shawn: exact same, but more boring. Elysse: Yeah. Okay, Shawn: cool. Okay. But now there's a, a tab bar at the bottom though with icons. Elysse: Tab bar. Tab bar. That was Shawn: there before. Oh, was it? Oh, yep. Welcome to have it. Yeah. Yeah. The Elysse: only gradient they used is in the background of the cap picture. Shawn: Yeah. So now I'm curious if you described a completely different app, would it look exactly the same? Like maybe they just have a template app design, like a, like a, oh, Elysse: maybe. Should we try another one just for, for funsies? Well, Gavin: while you're doing that, just to, um, fill air in the podcast, um, my daughter's actually going through this right now, so she wants to get into like graphic design, UI and stuff. She's not sure if she wants to do like illustration or game art or ui, but whatever. She's very much in this world of like going to university. She's young, like AI is kind of part of her life now. Obviously old enough that remembers when there was an ai, but she's going through that, like what [00:49:00] Sean described, where it's like, I'm new. But there's these tools, how am I gonna use them? But also add like, my own flare, like how am I gonna use them to like, generate concepts and then like create unique pieces that are like, resonate with me. And it's really cool to see the stuff that she's working on. Um, yeah. Elysse: Okay. I asked for something completely different and it didn't, it just didn't, Gavin: it just said no. Shall Elysse: we proceed with designing these greens? Yes. Gavin: Oh, he's asking questions. Let's bump to jump to cassette, the next link and we'll come back to this one. Elysse: Okay. We'll come back. Gavin: Yeah. Elysse: Um, okie dokie cassette music.com. Cassette music.com. Uh, music and Sonic Branding Agency. It's a branding agency. Uh, maybe we shouldn't include this. I thought it was really cool though. Uh, crafting bespoke soundscapes for physical spaces like hotels, restaurant, retail stores, wellness centers, offices. So not our same a uh, agency. But wait, that's Gavin: a job. I wanna do that. Make background [00:50:00] sounds for hotel lobbies and shit. That sounds so fun. Can we do this? Yeah, yeah. Let's do it by synthesizer and get paid for it. Elysse: So it's mu it's music curation, basically. Um, and like handcrafted, you literally just said it was super cool. Gavin: Oh, but I don't wanna curate. I wanna make it, I want to, like, that's so, I don't wanna be like, oh, this is a nice playlist by, um, Cher. This'll go really good in Trump's tower. Elysse: Well, no, no, no. I think that that's what they're doing. Oh. So they're creating the music and then they're creating curated experiences for different clientele. Gavin: That's cool. That is cool. Okay. I'm back on the train. Elysse: Uh, okay. They have, because that is dope name Gavin: for a music company too. It dope. Elysse: They probably paid a crap ton for that, right? Gavin: It set music though. They didn't Oh, yeah. Yeah. Cas. Elysse: Uh, okay. So custom music programming, tailored playlist designed to reflect unique, uh, characters and energy for each client space. Uh, identity development, creating a cohesive auditory [00:51:00] experience, uh, compliments brand and visuals, spatial design, and then operational tools. So friendly interfaces to manage and adjust their music settings and needs. That's kind of neat. 'cause I guess like, you can't walk into any space and just throw a Spotify top 100 on, right. You gotta pay, you gotta pay to play for that, that stuff. Gavin: Mm-hmm. This is really interesting. Elysse: Yeah. Cassette music.com. Cool. Sean, well, you're the music guy. What do you think, well, you're both music guys, but you're also a music guy. What do you think about this? Shawn: Yeah, I like it. I think it's a, it's a cool niche and like, um, you know, say we wanted a custom jingle for our podcast, you know, I would probably get Gavin to make it, but if I didn't have a Gavin on hand, I would hire somebody like this. Elysse: Yeah. Shawn: Cool. Kevin on Hand's. A good band name. Elysse: It's a good band name. Uh, oh. Wow. Okay. Just coming back to Stitch. Shawn: Okay. Hey, it changed. Elysse: They did some different stuff. So this is quite different. Shawn: Yeah, it's [00:52:00] different. Yeah. So the Elysse: prompt, I asked why I, I wanted it to build a park app with a, like a interactive map. This is not an interactive map, but it is trying very hard. Uh, but it's completely different than the, uh, habit tracking app. The, Shawn: the parts that are not different are these further the reservation details and the account screen, like those look identical to the other end. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, they do. There is some, it's almost like they have some, maybe a Figma, um, component Library. Library or something. Library, yeah. Yeah. And they're just building things with the component library and adjusting. That's pretty cool though, which is not Gavin: bad. Is it is kind of nice that like you could quickly like throw together the basic screen so that you're not having to drag and drop that. So if it's like, here's like the basic flow, okay, I'll put this in Figma and make it beautiful. Right. Like at the end of the day, like a wire frame, like an app is like this kind of wire frame that then is polished. Right? So it just kind of saves you the time of making these basic screens. You can kind of iterate until you're like, yeah, that's the flow I want. Okay, let's go into Figma and, and work. Yeah. Elysse: It's interesting. [00:53:00] Yeah. That's cool. Okay, we're done with this. Um, we got a couple more that I'm just gonna rifle through. Gavin: Him and I are friends on this one. Um, Elysse: yeah, I think this is one of Gavin's faves. So David protein.com, a terrible name for protein bar, in my opinion. Yeah. Uncomfortable with David Protein. It's super icky and I don't know if that's the point, but it's a Canadian protein bar company and they are weird. Yeah. Uh, not a lot to it, it's just the protein bar. Elysse (3): Mm-hmm. Elysse: But it's, I don't know, just the vibe is off like. I don't know if this is supposed to be like a satire or if they're serious. Do you know what I mean? Shawn: I like it. They're serious. I think it's cool. They just probably the guy who started the company's name's David. It's like David. Oh, isn't it supposed to be after Gavin: the statue of David? That, that, that's what I thought. Oh yeah. Rick Statue at the Shawn: top. Yeah, I missed that part. I was sending an email. But, um, [00:54:00] no, thanks for joining us. It's as good a name as any David Protein. Welcome back. Sean Protein. Cool. We Gavin (2): need Sean Protein. I'm Shawn: comfortable saying that. I take it Sean is a pretty generic name. David isn't like exceptionally original too. This Gavin (2): more unique. Shawn: Yeah, but I like the design. I like the gold packaging. I like the Sarah font. It feels kind of upscale. Like Don't like it. David, protein. I'd munch on this. Hook me up. David. Sponsor this. I don't Gavin (2): love it. We need like Gavin Carbs or Elise Elysse: No candy or No. I really don't like it. Gavin (2): Elise Protein. Nah, it doesn't, there's just, there's Elysse: too much, like too many connotations. Underlying I, for me anyways. Yeah, I, I know Gavin (2): what you mean. It, there's a lot of, um, innuendo. Gavin: Are we keeping it safe for work? We are. We're trying. We're dancing around it. Elise and I are doing our best. Let's move on. Okay. I see. I see. All right. I just Elysse: don't love it. Gavin: Hmm. Elysse: Like this is geared towards men, right? This isn't a female protein bar [00:55:00] company. Shawn: I mean, it's mostly women in the photos, isn't it? It's 50 50. There's one. Elysse: I mean, Shawn: one is the stature David and the other one is the woman. Right? And then that's, do you think women are gonna Elysse (2): buy this? Elysse: I Elysse (2): think Shawn: it's targeted at women. Look, and there's a woman there. I don't think there's a single man on this Webster crew. Are those hands on Gavin: the bottom right? A woman's hand? No. Oh, yeah. They had nails. Yeah. Are women. They're woman. Elysse: Oh, I really hate this. I gotta find a man on this. We gotta find another man in here. Hey, there you go. Bald guy. But he's, he's the creator. He's the fuck. I hate this so much. This makes me hate this. Worse or more. Uh, anyways, David Protein Instagram. Go, go look at it and tell us what you think Shawn: then. And then don't buy it, please. Elysse: And then don't buy it. Shawn: Yeah. I wonder. Buy a lease. I kind of wanna try one. Elysse: I mean, it's cleaning. You can buy them. Have them at the office with your $300 worth of poppy. Shawn: That's a secret. Hey, that never arrived. [00:56:00] It's arriving soon. I got the UPS notice. Oh, nice. Oh, can we shout out? fair.com. Fair. Fair. I know we just clicked F like fair with an e.com. Elysse (2): Oh yeah. Shawn: I had so much fun browsing around on this website. It says San Francisco based, I assume startup that is essentially aggregating wholesalers of physical products. Oh, cool. This isn't like an Alibaba, like all these products have brands. F-A-I-R-E. No, Elysse: I'm there. Just gimme a second. Oh, sorry. Shawn: Um. And, uh, it's cool. Like it's, uh, I like the design. I had to sign up for a wholesale account to be able to like, see pricing and, and, and actually buy things. Um, but, uh, they extended me credit terms right away when I made an order. Um, you can basically like get hooked up with thousands or who knows how many wholesalers, um, to get products into your, into your retail store or your [00:57:00] e-commerce store. Um, and, uh, I don't know, super fun. There's everything on here. Elysse: Yeah. And we will report back with the quality. Shawn: I got the blankets. They're in my van right now. Are they nice? They're they're allowed. Talk about that. Shh. Oh yeah. That's not public. Son of a gun. What do you mean? It's not public to our team. They're a surprise for our team. For the summit. Stop saying it. Elysse: Stop saying the thing. Blanket, blanket. Plank. Blanket. Shawn: At least froze. Gut. Did I freeze struck? It was like. Elysse: Okay. Uh, yeah. fair.com. Check it out if you need wholesale stuff. Wholesale poppies, wholesale blankets. Anyway, so I Shawn: bought a lot of pop off of this because you can't get Poppy in Canada and, Elysse: or no Ali Pop. You can get Poppy in Canada. But you got Ali Pops, right? Shawn: I got them both, yeah. Elysse: Oh, okay. Shawn: At a premium you can get orange juice too, by the looks of it on that site. Did you Elysse: pay for the weight of that? Shawn: I think I did for the shipping. [00:58:00] It wasn't cheap. Oh, that's Elysse: crazy. Yeah. That's crazy. Okay, let's crush these two last ones, or we can even skip them. Flora AI powered creative platform designed to streamline the idea, ideation and creation process. Shawn: I have no idea what this is. I think it's like, uh, Springs. I think they raised $6.5 million though. So somebody, holy shit. With a checkbook knows what? It's Elysse: crazy. I think it's one of those, uh, like idea brainstormy things. Oh wait, maybe not. Wait, hold on. Gavin: Flora Fauna. I wanna try it. This just looks like a, um, like a fig jam almost. Elysse: Yeah. Okay. So it's, it's for, it's an, it brings together 40 top tier AI models enabling users to, um, ideate, iterate, and explore creative concepts efficiently. So there's canvas that you can riff on and then like text image, video generation tools, making it super versatile. Shawn: Adding this to my list of design tools. Elysse: Yeah. [00:59:00] Alright. Uh, infinite canvas team collab, and then community stuff. Um, yeah. Marketing team's good for that. Hmm. Gavin: Oh, pretty cool. Elise and I are the marketing team now. We should, we are marketing should, we should ideate weird floating, multicolored. Flowers. Flowers. Yeah. Elysse: Yeah. Okay. That's important to our workflow. Gavin: Yeah. Elysse: Uh, yeah. Looks cool. Give it a try. Let us know what you think. And then Gavin (2): Wait, that's the Gavin: same thing. Elysse: It looks very similar. Very DI think it's very different. Oh, actually I wanna go back to this because the pricing, 'cause we always go over pricing. So pro 16 per seat, which is actually crazy. And if we were to get monthly, it's $20 a seat. And then for agency it's $48 a month per seat, which is wild. Shawn: I just signed up. And um, there's a [01:00:00] product design workflow video as part of the onboarding that you can watch. I said I was a, a product designer at an agency. Cool. And there's like these little videos that kind of show you how to do different things and it like, it looks pretty good. Elysse: You just did the free account. Shawn: Yeah. Elysse: Cool. I'll have to do that and try it. Uh, yeah. And then enterprise reach out. I Gavin: actually don't think $16 a month is that expensive. If you're getting value from it. I dunno. Ai AI is not cheap if it's actually speeding you up. I mean, I pay $200 a month for fucking chat GBT. Oh Elysse: yeah. I guess like our team account. Gavin: Yeah. I mean I, we probably spend way more on cloud code. They're um, for the engineers, like we're probably in the thousands. Figma ain't cheap either. Like Yeah. Yeah. If, if a this tool actually works and makes you faster, I mean, I don't want tools to get more expensive, but when it's like that multiple of, of [01:01:00] benefit, then yeah. I mean, 16 bucks a month is not unreasonable anyway. That's fair. Not that I'm trying to sell. I haven't used it. I'm just saying the pricing if it's helpful, is reasonable. Elysse: Yeah. Uh, okay. This last one, aura chat.io AI powered design assistant, again tailored for max. Gavin: Ooh. Put in the exact same thing you did for the um, Google Sketch thing. Whatever. Elysse: Oh, what did I type though? What was the first thing? I typed, Gavin: um, uh, a habit tracking app inspired by Tamagotchi. Oh, see? Aw. Paywall. We're out. Done. I'm Thanks everybody. Have a good weekend. Elysse: That was it. Gavin: That was it. This is why, this is why you can't. No, Elysse: what a pain. We'll never know. Well, if you do wanna sign up, uh, it's basically the same AI design stuff. So, uh, yeah, all the, all the stuff that we basically just talked about.[01:02:00] Shawn: Everybody's trying to do this and I, I have this opinion that, um, I mean, we're guilty of this with Steelo, but I don't think chat is the future of AI interfaces. Um, it is the current iteration, but I do think there's gonna be more buttons and clicky things like, um. What if you chose from a list of components or like built-in interface by clicking the components that you want and then had some like dials and bells and whistles to, to interact with this interface. Like a little more of a design tool, but simple enough that you can like describe, um, you know what I mean? Elysse (3): Mm-hmm. Gavin: I actually, it's kind of related. I was exploring an idea similar to this, where interactions were generated on the AI based on the user's earlier interactions. So I had a starting interaction and it would expand from there. And the way I was designing it was a simple text-based [01:03:00] adventure game, like, um, like Zork or other mud games back in the day. But you'd play it like in your browser, sok. Zork, do you? You never heard of Zork? It's like a tech space, adventure game, whatever. I'm dating myself. It's really old. It's super fine. Go find out Zork, Google it. Anyways. Um, zork. But the whole idea is that like a scene would happen and you'd click one of the two buttons and then a new scene would happen, but it would generate procedurally. So like I didn't know the next thing would, that would happen, right? So based on your interactions, the AI would figure out like the next most sensible thing to move that scene forward. And I mean, that's a basic example of what Sean's talking about. But imagine an app where like you sign up and it's like, okay, what do you wanna do first? And you click the button. Like I'm interested in, I don't know, personal finance. It's like, okay, this person's an individual, it's not a business they're in interested in finance. And it's like they click show me transactions. 'cause it shows like transactions, bank account, whatever. It's like, okay, their primary goal is their transactions and they click like rename this vendor. Right? So like now the AI's going like, okay, I'm gonna start building [01:04:00] the interactions. Based on what this person does and get smarter and smarter at like offering clickable things instead of me typing, show me my transactions. Shawn: You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. I think you could have the chat to add context Totally. But it would be like faded secondary, you know? Secondary, Gavin: yeah. Because it's true. It's like a lot of those apps I don't want talk to, but it'd be cool if the AI was there to like do something more human and natural and more complicated, like more agentic, I guess. But like it should be smart enough that it starts to learn my habits and gives me the clickable thing instead of me typing it every time. Be smarter AI layer in essentially. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, Elysse: before we go, can I know what your sailboat was named Sean? Gavin: Not on the podcast. Elysse: Is it that bad? Gavin: I just don't know if it's appropriate for the podcast. Elysse: It's not that bad. You named a boat that you can't like talk about? Shawn: No, my, my sailboat was named BRB Smiley face. Oh, okay. I don't Elysse: wanna know your captain. I just wanted to know the, what the name of your boat was. No. No, the boat. Shawn: The boat was BRB. Yeah, that's good Boat, which I [01:05:00] thought was a super clever boat name. Yeah, it was good. Yeah. Elysse: Did you like get it like on the boat? Shawn: No, I never actually printed it on the boat I wanted. Oh, so you just called the VRB? Yeah. Yeah. Elysse: That's funny. Uh, all right, that's it. That's all we got. Anything else? Gavin: It should have been TBD, like, 'cause you never put the name on so like Yeah, that would've been really good. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. Anyways, that'll be my book thing. Okay. Elysse: Uh, that's it. Gavin: Okay. That's goodbye. That's all. Alright. Alright. Goodbye. Bye. Well, everybody uh, tweeted us and guess what Sean's captain's name is? No, this boat. I love this idea. I leaving. I would like to Elysse: know, but I also don't think I wanna know. Right. Gavin: If someone guesses, I'll say yes. Oh, Sean left. Elysse: You already left. Well, he left. I don't think, I wanna guess. I don't think I need to know this. It's not that bad. Okay. Goodbye. Bye.