Description

One of our talented designers Caitlin Aboud joins us to chat B&E's, open source code editors, swords, and the future of graphic design in the shadow of AI.

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Transcript

Gavin: [00:00:00] Yes. I'm really excited about the sword back there. What's up with that Caitlin: sword? I was just gonna say. Oh, did you guys? Where is it? Yeah, there. We got that at a garage sale for like 5. What? That's dope. Gavin: We can't see the sword. Shawn: Where's the sword? Gavin: Bottom left, it's like some Zelda shit going on. Oh, sick. Yeah, yeah. And you have Elysse: a beautiful house, Katelyn. I want to live in your house. We got Caitlin: pretty lucky with this place when we were house hunting. But that sword though, we were driving, and we did, uh, we were just going around the neighborhood, checking it out. And this grasshopper had this sword right in the middle. And we stopped at a U turn and went to go get it, because we were like, I don't know what that is, but I want it. We have to have the sword. It's funny. It's two Elysse: bucks. That's actually very cheap. Swords have come up two times in calls this week, which is two more times than it ever has. Gavin: Weird. When was the last Elysse: sword? Oh, you guys both missed the call yesterday. Uh, yesterday, Julie told us that, [00:01:00] um, Caitlin, you'll have to help me out here cause I, I, it was so early, even though, so I think she got the sword one of them. A guy that liked her in like, when she was in high school, like forged a sword for her, which is like, awesome. Uh, and Gavin: made this like creepy, but yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. Elysse: But also very cool. Uh, made this like beautiful box for it. And I think she sold it to somebody. And then a few years later realized that she really liked it and wanted to buy it back. And then she bought it back, but she has this like beautiful forged sword. That some like. It's a Gavin: good band name. Beautiful forged sword. I'm going to write Caitlin: that down. Yeah, there's a photo of it, I think, in the general channel. Gavin: Pretty amazing. Elysse: BorgSword. That's a good band name. Welcome, Caitlin. We're happy to have you. Thanks for joining us. Um, yeah, we're stoked. We're going to run through the links. Um, welcome to the Internet Plumber Podcast, everybody, where we hang out on the internet as a service. [00:02:00] You can catch our podcasts. Everywhere you listen to podcasts and if you like to watch them, like I, you can catch 'em on YouTube. Gavin: Yeah, YouTube. Um, I feel like we gotta do intros of the, of our guests though. I mean, we, I, we said Caitlyn. Did we intro like what Adrian does last week? Yeah. I think we did. Caitlyn, because I Tell, tell us what you do. Caitlin: Uh, I make things look really nice ly Gavin: Yeah. Caitlyn's a designer here at Input Logic , and she does exactly that makes things look nice. Yeah. And I do my best not to butcher them when implementing them. Her house Elysse: is a example of this. Your house is beautiful. Yeah, yeah, it is. This is the house of a designer. Shawn: I hate to shout out our team even more, but Gavin, that balance between like making it look nice and making it functional without breaking the design, I think is one of our like key differentiators. Replicating the figma on the internet or in the app store is generally why Gavin: I'm not on projects anymore Shawn: Can I tell you guys a harrowing tale yes, please only if Gavin: there's [00:03:00] a Elysse: sword in it though, I wish Gavin: there was a sword Shawn: There's no what there was was a like a garden tool Which was as long as a spear, but so My wife and I were watching TV last night. We were watching the new Avatar, which is like, a bit better than okay. It was, you know, anyway, so we're watching the new Avatar, and it's loud, and the house is dark, and we don't have any exterior lighting on, and, uh, we hear a noise behind us. Both turn around. Stephanie faster than me and she says Somebody just opened and closed the door what and I saw it like thump closed And like I go feral I hop up I run over there. I peek out the curtain. I don't see anything I like grab my jacket and a headlamp which I keep by the door for chopping wood and I like go outside and the first thing I see is like this Six foot spear that's like a weed pulling tool with a little claw on the end. So I pick that up and I'm like running around [00:04:00] my yard. Like checking behind all the bushes, looking behind the garage, checking in front of the carriage house, checking all the doors. And like, I get to my garage. I'm like, what if they're still in there? You know, so I like burst open the door like with my flashlight. My heart's just like racing, you know. Finally, I see my wife at the window, like, come in, you know, like, she's like, what are you doing? You're putting yourself in danger, you know? Caitlin: What would be the plan if you actually found someone? I Shawn: didn't think about that. As I was, as I was running down the driveway with my javelin, you know, I get to the road and I start shining the flashlight down to see if I can see anyone. I'm like, What's my plan if I encounter a human here? Like, I'm not gonna be, like, like, impaling anyone today, you know? Honestly, though, I'd Caitlin: probably be scared, because I think this guy's crazy. Crazier than I am right now, so. Yeah, yeah. Elysse: So did you find anybody? Shawn: No, I didn't. Yeah. Okay. Thank goodness. Um, yeah, it was really freaky. And then the stupid thing is, we actually have security cameras with motion [00:05:00] lights, but, um, I bought the battery powered kind and the batteries were dead, of course. No! So I actually like didn't get any footage or anything. And so then immediately I like go on Amazon and order the like power cables so they can be permanently plugged in. You didn't tell the creepiest part of the story though. Oh, yeah. So, so I get back in the house and Stephanie's like, can you check the house, please? I'm like, oh yeah. So I bring my spear inside, you know, and so I'm like stomping through the house. Quietly. Um, so not stomping at all. And, uh, I like check the office, and every door I open, it's like, you get this like adrenaline rush, you know? Um, and uh, then I look down the hall, and the door to my bedroom where my daughter is sleeping is half open. Like, we just never do that, like, because we're watching a loud movie, there's no way we're gonna leave the bedroom door open to wake Riley up. I'm like, oh my god, so I like creep in there, um, look in the closet, look in the bathroom, there's nothing. I'm [00:06:00] like, did you leave Riley's door open? My wife just like turns pale, no, you know, like, and we're like, so did like, maybe we saw them exit, but they actually came in and like creeped down the hall and back or something? I have no idea. I mean like, is that the TV is pretty loud and we're like in Elysse: the family room, but could you have not seen them at like the corner Shawn: of your eye if I was glued to the television, you know, like it was far enough away that like, that's believable. Um, but I don't know. Anyway, so we called the police and like. Don't send anyone over here. We don't need any help, but like we think there's a home invader in the neighborhood Like so the police sent a car to like cruise the neighborhood and stuff, you know We're about ten minutes out of town in the country on like an acre so like it would have been so easy just for somebody to just like Escape into the dark, you know, Caitlin: yeah, I think a sword would be a better Shawn: item. A sword. Exactly. So that's what tipped me off. He was like, I need a sword next to my, next to my TV. [00:07:00] Caitlin: Oh, if it was robbing a house and I saw a guy with a sword, I would immediately drop everything. This is Gavin: no good. Elysse: Honestly, though, if you had the best aim with that spear, that would have been the more impressive part. And also, not to say that, like, I think you should impale people with garden tools, but if it had to come to that, Gavin: that would've been If someone's in my house, I'm in favor of impaling, just putting it out Shawn: there. I was doing the mental math, like If this comes to an altercation, what are the limits on physical force that won't land me in prison, you know, like, because Canada's pretty favorable to, you know, like, we don't have a stand your ground sort of law here, you know, is it called stand your ground, the one where you can like, shoot somebody in your property or something? We don't have that. Not that I'm in favor of that either. Like, I, I definitely was not Gavin: Killing someone over is a bit extreme, but like, you know, a spear to the leg says, get the hell off my property. Elysse: You should do is [00:08:00] keep bear spray somewhere that's accessible and you can bear spray somebody. That's not like as maybe also people don't take any of these. That's like tips. Whoever listens to this podcast. Uh, Caitlin: yeah. Elysse: Like, I Gavin: don't know, it should be really nice for your spring at the minimum, you know, the bowtie. Caitlin: a bonus. Just put the bear stay on the floor. We can grab it. Really cool. I mean, Elysse: it's not super ouchy. It's probably more of like a misdemeanor. I don't know. There's like more things that are pro bear spray than impaling somebody with a sword or a spear, in my opinion. Shawn: Yeah. So anyway, that, that rattled me. I had trouble sleeping last night. Um, and, uh, And I thought, oh, what if they steal my motorcycle? I let my insurance lapse, so I don't even have theft insurance. I got a motorcycle stolen. A few years ago, and I didn't have theft insurance on it, so it just like, poof, up in smoke, and like, I thought that would be such a like, [00:09:00] gross irony, if like, the month I left my motorcycle insurance lapse, this new one was stolen. Yeah, my wife would never let me live that down. Or buy another motorcycle. Gavin: Yeah. I have Elysse: two follow ups to the story, two follow up questions. Um, the first question is. In all of your homes, who gets up to check on the spooky noise? Because in my house, I get up. Gavin: Seb, come on. Elysse: Mostly because he could sleep through an atomic bomb and I'm like an extremely light sleeper. And the dog doesn't even, like, the dog will hear a noise and look at me and I'm like, what? Gavin: Like, this Shawn: is your job. You've got a big scary dog, too. Yeah. Oh, funny. Um, Elysse: my second follow up, I guess, is And this is something that I've seen more and more of, like, our group of friends. When you put on a movie, [00:10:00] is your intent to watch the movie? Because we are mostly on our phones, and the movie is on in the background. Interesting. Like, I'll be redditing while it's on, and then just, like, put my phone down for a little bit, and then, like, reddit a little bit more, and then put my phone down. So it's like, I'm in and out. But my attention span for a movie these days is low. I think that's Caitlin: just a reflection of the tech quality of movies. That could be Gavin: true. Shawn: Yeah. I like that take. I have pretty good single screen discipline. I just made up that term right now. I'm rolling with it. Um, if there's a screen in front of me, I will focus on that screen and not a second. My wife is like a two or three screener. She'll be like, have her laptop and like doing some work, watching the movie and then occasionally texting her friends, you know? Yeah, I do that. Dang. Gavin: Wow. Mine, I, I agree with Caitlin because like a lot of the time I don't watch a lot of movies, but like the kids will be like, Hey, let's have a movie night. I'm like, yeah, whatever. We'll, we'll put it on. And yeah, I'm like in the background on my phone, kind of just half watching, hanging out with them, eating [00:11:00] popcorn kind of thing. But recently I've been educating them with the Star Wars and they've never seen it before. We've been watching them. And I mean, full disclosure, I'm not a hardcore Star Wars fan. I'm like, I can't name everything. I don't know the original order, you know, so, but they're damn good. You know what it's in my opinion anyway, and like, we've been watching them and like my phone's nowhere to be found. I'm glued to the glued to the show. It's good. So yeah. Exactly. Caitlin: Yeah. Last night it was quite an embarrassing moment. I was watching. I'm leaving. I was watching Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, which isn't this ridiculous show ever, but I started watching it. There's no shame here. Yeah, no shame. And then my girlfriend's watching, uh, Planet 3 in the background. I literally had both screens kind of next to each other, and I was going between the two following the storyline. Wow. Like, Shawn: that's what my life has come to. Interesting juxtaposition there. Caitlin: Yeah, I mean, they're both like animals, kind of observing these like weird, intricate, like, relationships with [00:12:00] each other and how they Shawn: go about it. Yeah, I mean, that, that could be like, at the MoMA or something, you walk into a room, there's two screens, there's some like, sounds, and you're like, whoa. Gavin: There's no difference. Yeah, that's true. Shawn: Yeah. Um, should we roll into, uh Let's do it. That was the longest intro ever. I'm sorry to burden you all with kind of, uh No, it was worth it. Elysse: anxieties. Um, I do think we're going to blow through this one really quickly because I think Gavin is already going to veto this. Am Caitlyn's Shawn: take on this though. I do Gavin: too. Caitlin: I'm excited to see. Shawn: Oh, yeah. Can you see it? Yeah. It's on the screen. So, Caitlin, we gotta rip through the, um, the links. So, Elise opened one, but I find it's helpful to open them in your own browser. Um, do you have the email? I'll share it with you. Yes, please. I'll throw it in the chat here. Elysse: I do like how I can Shawn: spin this. So for, for those of you listening and not, uh, watching, um, this URL [00:13:00] is fuse. kiwi. And it's, I don't know, some kind of collection of weird design and art, I want to say, uh, with a cool spinny 3D effect. Gavin: Yeah. To be clear, it's white background with bright lime balls. So if you hate your eyes, then yeah, by all means visit the Shawn: site. Elysse: I don't know. I think it's cool. Um, wow. Am I correct in saying, though, that you dislike this, Gavin? Gavin: Yeah, 100%. Okay. There's maybe, like, a couple cool pieces. Like, those weird little chairs are dope, but overall, I do not like any of this site's layout. These are weird little chairs. It just feels messy. Caitlin, Elysse: are you in here yet? Caitlin: Yeah, I'm just looking at the link right now. Thoughts? Feelings? I feel like, yeah, this site is, um, a lot of designers are trying to do, like, anti aesthetic, so you're not supposed to like it. And if you do like it, you get it, like kind of [00:14:00] in with the inner circle of like cool designers. Gavin: Oh damn, that makes me not a cool designer then, which is fine. I'm not a designer. Shawn: This reminds me of, there was a whole trend. Man, this is dating myself, but this is like pre 2000. com bubble burst. There was a design trend, like a no CSS design trend. So it'd be like, design your design portfolio with just HTML and no CSS. Wow. Um. And, uh, I think I pulled off a pretty dope layout. I'll have to dig it up in the Wayback Machine somewhere. Um, but yeah, it's a similar, like, kind of trend. Sort of anti design design. Yeah, Caitlin: it's so trendy right now to, like, um, have, like, basically look like an HTML website to make it look not, uh, put Gavin: together. Shawn: Right on. Let's keep going. So the next one Beautiful art for your eyeballs. I do think Elysse: this is a Canadian artist. Oh, I know this guy. Oh, do you? [00:15:00] Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah, because they're Cox Bay somewhere Shawn: here. Maybe you shared this link. These links are all gleaned from our Slack channels. So Caitlin: nice. I know. I used to, way back, I used to curate a gallery just for outdoor photography. And Elysse: we had so much of his work. Shawn: Cool. Ooh, that old line photo's cool. The fishing one? Or ski? I love the boardwalk one. Um, it looks like it's maybe up north or something, where is it? Oh, Nova Scotia, that's not even BC. Oh, cool. Cool. Caitlin: Yeah, Cape Anne, Nova Scotia. Have you guys been to Tofino? Um, his gallery is actually right on the main street in Tofino. No way, Gavin: cool. Yeah. No, I haven't been. Super great. Ever? Oh, I've been to Tofino. I haven't been to the gallery. That Shawn: Cox Bay shot is so nice. Man. Have Caitlin: you guys ever done that hike up to the Cox Bay lookout? Yeah. Man. Man. It's a really nice hike. So Shawn: beautiful. It's a good like in between surf, lunchtime walk kind [00:16:00] of deal. Elysse: Yeah, super nice. Sweet. Uh, well if you're looking for some prints, Gavin: hit this link up. Yeah, some west coast feeling. I guess east coast too. Coastal feeling prints. Shawn: Coastal feeling. I'm actually shopping for art for my carriage house right now. We're trying to like get a mix of just stuff we like and then local artists. Um, trying not to put too many originals in there, mostly prints. Um, just cause like, in case somebody steals them, now that I know there's home invaders in the neighborhood. I Elysse: feel like that's a good direction to go in. Alright, so, Caitlin: go ahead. I was going to say, if you need any recommendations, I know so many photographers from that time that I was at the gallery. Nice. Yeah, some really good recommendations. Shawn: Are we slinging narcotics here? Yeah. Cool. Gavin: Magic mushrooms for everybody. In Elysse: the link, Gavin said I Gavin: could share this. Yeah. I was like, whatever. We're from the West coast. If people don't think we do mushrooms, they're delirious. Yeah. We're like, [00:17:00] we're like, we're the OG micro dosers. Come on. Yeah. Shawn: Some more macro than others. Gavin: Yeah. Well, you got to find your ratio, right? And where's the threshold before your micro to macro? Your sweet spot. Caitlin: Uh, fungal friend. It's Shawn: a beautiful website. Fungal Friend. That's a great website and a great name. Gavin: I think that's why we originally shared it, is because like, it was so well done, like the product shots and everything, you know. So, Caitlin: yeah. Super clean. But these are more for, um, not necessarily like drug tripping, yeah, it's more for like, uh, increasing your brain activity or your mood. More so, right? Shawn: Well, they've got that little three, the four dot meter on the bottom of each package. One of them is called shine and the dots are maxed. So I imagine maybe that's the, uh, how many, how many rems Caitlin: is it? Yeah, shine. This one is a macro dose. Gavin: How many grams is that, can you click into it? I'm curious. Let's see. 450? 450. Milligrams. Oh, milligrams. Okay, so essentially half a gram. [00:18:00] Shawn: Okay. That wouldn't make me shine. Is that a lot? Gavin: Well, I like, I'll take 500, which is essentially the same, and I get, you know, a little sparkly, sure. You know, it kind of depends. Elysse: Sparkly is a good way to, good way to describe that. Yeah. Well, beautiful website. Yeah. That's cool. Um, Gavin: is this, where are they from? I guess in Canada, you can't really like show off where you're from. What do they know roughly where it's based out of? Like, is it a BC company or like, I'm pretty sure Elysse: Lula knows this person. Gavin: Okay. Um, so maybe they're, well, I should say where it's based out of. Canadians are for Caitlin: psilocybin microdose. Interesting. Huh? Yeah. There's no way it's on the west coast. Yeah, Shawn: it's got to be. I don't think this is an East Coast pastime, is it? Gavin: I don't know. Yeah, I feel like it would be West Coast. I have a couple buddies that have started buying like those kits online and like growing their own. So, yeah. Hmm. Elysse: Interesting. I feel weird about that. Like, I feel weird about growing [00:19:00] mushrooms in my house. Like not just like psilocybin, but even the like oyster mushrooms. I don't know. It freaks me Shawn: out. Huh, like spores? I don't even know what they are. Elysse: Yeah. It's a spore thing, but like, I also have a fear of accident. So I have a lot of irrational fears. One of them is, um, fermenting things and accidentally giving myself botulism, which I think is high probability in certain cases. Um, and then, I don't know, I have like a lot of, maybe the spores. It's just feel, it feels weird. It feels like one of those things I should just get at the farmer's market because I trust Gavin: them more. My wife just said I should watch a Netflix series called like Fungi or something like that. It's really good. I haven't seen it, but she said it's like all about, um, I don't know if they go into like magic mushrooms, but it's all just about mushrooms in general and like how they're somehow connected to humans more than we thought or something. I don't know. I haven't seen it. Elysse: You should macrodose and then watch it. All right. Gavin: I mean, we, I don't do that. That's, that's my old days. If you were, Elysse: hypothetically, this is [00:20:00] what I would recommend. Yeah. Caitlin: Blanket staining. We do not condone drugs here Elysse: or murder, or murder with Gavin: spears. Spears to the leg. I'm okay with, I'll condone that. Caitlin: In some Shawn: circumstances. This week's disclaimer is unreal. This Honda, I shared this link. Um, at least made me feel foolish by following it up with that vacuum cleaner, the handheld vacuum cleaner. It does look like a vacuum cleaner though. It looks strangely similar. It looks like a vacuum cleaner. Yeah, it does. Um, but I mean, I think it's a sexy car. I would drive it. I would drive Gavin: that. I don't love the van. It's kind of stupid looking in my opinion, but, um, whatever. This looks very Caitlin: comfortable, to be honest. Gavin: Yeah. Yeah, or just, I don't know. There's something about it that bothers me. I can't put my finger on it, but I do like the car. Caitlin: Yeah, or it looks like those drones that deliver packages for you. Oh! Yeah, street ones. Shawn: Yeah. Reminds me a lot of that. The little street bots? Yeah. Oh, yeah. The, I like that. I mean, I don't know. Do you think this is like the [00:21:00] post cybertruck era of car design where people are just getting weird? It's like, oh. Yeah. They did it and it sold. Let's get weird. Caitlin: I feel like it's all about getting the, like a viral reshare of this crazy looking car. Like, that is insane. It looks like Star Trek. Gavin: That, like, the space in there is actually kind of cool, though. I didn't see the interior photo of that van, like, with all those windows and, like, that big kind of booth y feel. That's actually kind of neat. Shawn: Oh, we forgot to announce the link again. So this is the Honda Saloon. It's their new concept EV. Um, and then the van. I don't know what they called the van. But if you look up Honda Saloon, you'll see it. I, Elysse: so, a friend of mine, um, he is a, he's an engineer. But what he does is he gets concept car like drawings and mock ups and whatever and he has to Find out where the like weak spots are in the car. So they have to redesign it for safety. He says, motorcycles are mostly always zero and they just pass them anyways. That was kind of [00:22:00] funny. Um, I would just be really curious to see what this would like, is this a concept car or is this a, I'm going to, we're building this car. And is it like rated for safety? Gavin: Cause like there's people sitting in there, right? So is it just a shell or is it like a drivable? Like, because like concept car, do you mean like they've actually made one or is, or we're looking at a Shawn: render? I think they showed it off at CES. Oh, okay. So they had them there, one car, one van. Gavin: Interesting. Man, that looks like something out of Batman. I love it so much. Elysse: Yep. I have heard that these steering wheels are pretty lame though. Oh, really? Yeah, like to, like, turn them, because you have to, like, as a wheel is Gavin: Oh, you don't have to pull Shawn: circle into hand over hand. Yeah. Yeah. Although I drove my buddy's, um, Tesla Plaid, and, um, I don't know, it was kind of fun, like, video game esque. Like, stomping on the gas and using that. It's all a steering wheel. Caitlin: Oh, pretty cool. [00:23:00] Sweet little Elysse: car. And it looks like a Lambo, like a more affordable Lambo. Yeah. I don't know if it's affordable, but Caitlin: I bet in like five years we're gonna go back, or maybe even 10 years. We're gonna go to really looking cars after this whole cyber futuristic trend. Just Gavin: everywhere. Love those cars. I still do like the old Toyota Tercel and stuff like that. Eighties cars, old Daon. So nice. Mm-Hmm. . Those are dope. I love Elysse: them. They're like a firebird. Yeah. Caitlin: Have you seen that video? But they're not trying too hard to look good. They just look good. Yeah. Elysse: There was a really funny video of a woman who saw, uh, is it, it's a firebird, right? Not a thunderbird. Firebird? I think there's both. What kind Gavin: are we thinking of? Pontiac? I think there's Shawn: both. It's a Pontiac. I used to always get that. Yeah, that's a Pontiac Firebird. Yeah. I used to get that in that same era Camaro mixed up. Like the one had a little more curvy pointy nose and then the Camaro was a little more stubby. Yeah. Yeah. There's this woman Elysse: at a, like, car show and she's like, look at this cool car and she names it. She's like, it's the Pontiac Firebird. And then she [00:24:00] looks at the front of it and she's like, look at this cool chicken. Shawn: It does look like a chicken. It's like a bit of a chicken on the front. Yeah. What's Gavin: this diffusion Shawn: model for video generation? Gavin: Design Reviewed. Elysse: com. Yeah. Design Reviewed. Um, it's a personal project dedicated to digital preserving or digital, digitally preserving graphic design history and documenting the vast visual Caitlin: culture from the last Elysse: century. Shawn: It's actually really neat. You know what this reminds me of? I was at a. Tech Meetup in Vancouver on Thursday night at a building that's owned by the guy who started the Internet Archive, like the Wayback Machine and stuff. Oh, wow. It was such a beautiful building. It used to be, it was like a 150 year old building or something. And, um It was the first, um, bank, like, um, CIBC, Canadian Bank of Commerce, in Vancouver. And apparently there was a machine gun [00:25:00] turret on the roof at one point when, when Vancouver was the Wild West. There was a vault and everything in the building. But now it's just a big open event space and like, Boris, um, former investor of ours and a friend, um, Like gets to use the space whenever he wants to host the Vancouver Decentralized web meetup or something like that. So it's a rad like space anyway He has the servers for the Internet Archive Sitting on the mezzanine. Hmm, and you can just go like hang out with them get a selfie with the servers and apparently in like the post Trump US era. He was like, I need to get my servers out of the US and like plop them here in Canada. And he was just driving by, saw the building and said, Hey, that looks like our logo. I wanna buy that building. Geez. It's pretty crazy. Oh man. Caitlin: That's crazy Cool. I feel like if you showed anyone that selfie of you in the servers, you'd be like, oh my God, guess what I met today? And it's just these like. Shawn: The Internet. [00:26:00] I met the Internet. I met the Elysse: Internet. Can you believe it? Caitlin: I Shawn: have to search selfie now. Hopefully I took one. These are, Elysse: um, I guess it goes through each decade of graphic design. And, yeah, Caitlin: there's some really neat ones. This is so important. I feel like every designer is in this quarrel with, like, Dribbble, Pinterest, Instagram. Everyone's Pulling from the same source constantly. There is no variety. Everyone's following the same trends like this is Gavin: This is actually super cool. I really dig that last one you're Shawn: looking at. Yeah. These Elysse: two are like really sweet. Oh, this, these Gavin: three actually. I agree though. Caitlin, like I've noticed that, especially with like the whole, um, I forget what the tooling is, but a lot of people building on next JS right now use that like next JS site builder or something or whatever it is and like. All of the sites for like new CSS library or new like components or whatever. They all look identical. I'm like, Oh yeah, the exact same site. I'm like, please kill me now. Caitlin: Yeah, [00:27:00] I know. There's a, there's a thing where they're like users do have an expectations of how things should look. But at the same time, um, when you're doing like brand design or visual identities. That is an area where you can expand and everything looks the same now. It's just like agencies copying each other. There's no variety. It's monotonous. For sure. Yeah. Elysse: Um, this next one. I hate the name. It's called Shawn: Snickets. Snickets. I don't know. There's something like What are Snickets? I don't, don't you want some? Gavin: Yeah. I need it. Whatever it is. I don't know what it is yet. Elysse: They're, they're what? Like, it's like a, like a coupon. Is it a coupon? It Gavin: says Snickets are digital tickets that unlock exclusive products and deals. It's like Is it like Shawn: an NFT? Like, are you buying an NFT and then you're getting something? claim, Gavin: which is very like NFT sounding, um, verbiage. I'm scared to put my information in there. Yeah, I'm scared for you. I wouldn't put it in there. Powered? Shawn: Oh, here you go. 30 percent off [00:28:00] selected products from Visitor. Is Visitor a carbonated beverage company? Elysse: I think so. Snickers are a single use digital ticket that unlock deals for the products that you love. So I think it's like a coupon. So Caitlin: they do like, um, partnerships with other brands. They must, Shawn: yeah. Digital coupons. Caitlin: I wonder who's visiting this and if this was like a Campaign. I just, they were hoping we're gonna catch on TikTok or something. 'cause I don't know how else you'd find this other, just, yeah, like Elysse: it is neat. It looks cool. I think. I just don't love the name. Gavin: Snickets. If you click on selected products, does it do anything or, or like the kit, the picture. I mean, where was that? Oh, no. Oh, you can't do anything. Looks like bottles of, you know, like bubbly or whatever. Shawn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very strange. Whatever happened to Groupon? I don't know. Yeah. Do people Gavin: still use that? What was the Shawn: other one? Does it exist? There was Groupon and, um, um, crowd. [00:29:00] There's one called get Elysse: in the loop. There's, it's like a Kelowna based coupon thing. Gavin: Oh, that's what I was thinking of is, um, the one for the Island is called the Island daily deals. It's like the Groupon Shawn: for Vancouver Island. Caitlin: Nice. Chrome extension, honey, or something that you check out. It gives you Shawn: all the coupon codes. Oh, Gavin: that's handy. I don't, I wasn't aware of that. I always go hunting for them when I'm doing a checkout. Shawn: Yeah. They sold for so much money, like months after its launch. And I remember when it came out thinking like, Oh, that's such a simple idea for a browser extension. And then like, boom, they just like had this huge exit. Elysse: Uh, this next link reemotion Gavin: videos, videos, programmatically. I didn't share that. It looks interesting. Create real MP4 videos using react. I don't know why you'd want to do that. Scale your video production. Using server side rendering and parameterization. Well, that was a tongue twister. I'm so Elysse: happy you read that. There were a lot of words that I would have needed to sound. So [00:30:00] Shawn: is it like, um, what's that thing that we export? And Lottie, is it like Lottie? Somebody keeps calling me. Is it Gavin: because I'm stuck in your house last night? Shawn: Yeah, it's the home invader. Just making sure I'm Elysse: not at home. It's Stephanie being like, there's a whole person in our house, and you're just like, decline. Um, Caitlin: sorry, Sean, you were saying? It seems like people who can't have access to, or don't know how to export Lottie files, and they just have an mp4, right? And they want to get that all converted? Is that Gavin: the I honestly don't know. I don't Shawn: know what this does. We need a front end developer. Uh, I mean, I guess I am a front end developer, but it's been a long time since I've done anything like this. What does this mean? Yeah, I mean, I think it's, say you want to make a little animation, and you don't feel like pulling out an animation tool and, like, making it the old fashioned way, you could say, like, make these blobs move from here to there, and then export it. As MP four, so that it [00:31:00] is lightweight and not using all my JavaScript when I load the page. I think that's like kind of interesting. So say you wanted to make a button that like morphed into a splat or something. Okay. I don't know why you would wanna do that, but you could probably do that with this library, I feel. I wonder if they Caitlin: just export the frames and then that would be kind of embedded in the file in a way, instead of having like a MP four. I don't know. Elysse: Yeah. Yeah. Shawn: Neat. Looks, looks cool. Gavin: Cool. It looks interesting. I'm curious what it's trying to solve. Oh, this chat thing. What is it called? Neats? Neats? N E E T S dot A I. It's like, um, a chat tool to talk to, like, characters, um, from, I don't know, whatever. There's like Darth Vader and stuff in here. Naturally, I talked to Darth Vader. But I didn't, what I didn't realize. Is like, at first I was kinda like, oh okay, it's just gonna have like, key information about this person and make them talk like them. I don't know if it's for all of them, but it actually had like, Darth Vader's voice and it would respond with like, not canned responses either. And I was like, holy shit, this is actually really cool. I don't [00:32:00] know if you'd be able to hear the audio if you try it, but it was Shawn: like, It's like a GPT trained on this person's Gavin: uh, Yeah, but with like, audio, like it sounds like Darth Vader. Chat GPT doesn't do that. See? Shawn: Waiting. Hmm. Darth Vader Gavin: is very smart. He's thinking. He's thinking. I it's possible. He says he's thinking. I mean, it's like, it wasn't terribly fast for me either, but it, it did work. And then I heard his voice. So. Yeah. Maybe audio will work, but. Yeah. Come on, Darth. You got this. Here we Elysse: go. He's being really intentional with his Gavin: reply. Yeah. Next. Come on. We need the response. Five more seconds. Aw, darn it. He failed. Go to N E E T S dot A I. I thought it was fun. I had fun. Wait, Shawn: what's this Honda? Honda number two. It is the all new Honda Moto Compacto. Oh, this thing that looks like a credit card. This Gavin: thing's sick. Yeah, it sick. Shawn: It's interesting. This is renewing my love for Honda. I used to have a little Del Sol that I had, um I don't know. I just spent too much. Would [00:33:00] you? Gavin: Okay. Would you guys actually ride this in town? I would be. I feel like I'd get beat up. Caitlin: I would push me off the bike, take it and run and be such an easy grab. I wonder if Honda went over a different, like, um, a marketing VP or something, cause this feels really shocking. All I think is Honda Civic. I like this. Yeah. I Elysse: feel like that with the scooter revolution that's happening right now, like everyone is on one of those like either boost it boards or scooters. This is just like a cool little, you know, little zip around the block in this. Gavin: I think it's fun. This would Shawn: make an amazing, you know, when you go to, um, different cities and they have like either, like the standing scooters, um, Oh yeah, the ones you can rent or whatever. Yeah. These would be awesome for that purpose. Like a whole bank of these little moto compactos, um, they're probably electric, right? Little electric. I think so. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Battery there. It says you use it with an app and stuff. Like we're going to see fleets of these [00:34:00] that you just unlock with a credit card. It looks like a credit card. Caitlin: Yeah. It looks like Elysse: the sleeve that you put your credit card in so that you don't get people using those like credit card scanners. Yeah. Yeah. It looks Shawn: like a jammer. I want to hear Caitlin's hot take. I was going to say Caitlin: hot take, or you could just buy those suitcases with the wheels and you could just sit on it instead. That's true. Either way. That's what inspired it. Or you could put your laptop Shawn: in it. Yeah. It'd be amazing if there's a little laptop compartment on this thing. Yeah. I wonder Gavin: how heavy it is. Like. Could you like pick it up and take it into the store with or cafe reasonably without like too much effort like that, that would be kind of cool. I mean, I, he had left it out, but like, you know it like he put his back into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I imagine it's not light, but like, could I pack it up and pick it up with the handle like a briefcase and lug it into the coffee shop with, within a reasonable amount of effort? That reminds Shawn: me of the guy who used to come into the coworking space with his entire iMac in the original box. Oh yeah, and an external monitor, Gavin: dude, you have the desk to yourself. Like, just, just leave it there. Shout Shawn: out [00:35:00] to that guy. I forget his name. I Caitlin: was worried that it was going to get stolen if you left it at the office. Cause looking to and from the office with that thing, Shawn: I just assumed he didn't have a laptop and wanted to work on his iMac at work. It was just, yeah. Um, Elysse: I, have you guys been on those scooters? The ones that just like are sitting around in Gavin: big cities. Oh yeah, last time Sean and I were in D. C. we rented them to get around instead of catching taxis. It was great. They rip. Like, they are fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Elysse: We, uh, we got them in Arizona when we were there, um, and we just, like, ripped around town. Like, if you're, which I assume this is, like, the, when they're mostly used is when people are super intoxicated. Like, I see that going south. More than often. Yeah, Gavin: I could see that. They're so Shawn: fast. Apparently like intoxicated tourists crashing on rented scooters is like a thing in Victoria. You know, there's all those scooter rental places. Elysse: Yeah. [00:36:00] Really? Yeah, actually that's true. Like the actual moped scooters. Shawn: Yeah, you can go rent them down near the waterfront. Yeah. Caitlin: Yeah. I think that's an issue wherever scooters are rented. There's always crazy amount of accidents involved with tourists. I think Apollo was actually looking at making it illegal to sell scooters to, or rent scooters to tourists at one point because it's Shawn: so bad. They don't have the driving chops that a native, like, Balinese, what are you, Indonesian would have? Balinese sounds like, like, Bolognese sauce. Anyway. Or Caitlin: Bolognese, yeah. The, if you spend like whatever, a week in Bali, you'll see that like 90 percent is like Australian tourists that are like shirtless and they're all five packed onto one scooter, drunk, driving around. And so, yeah, must be for disaster, I would say. Gavin: What is this LinkedIn post? It's a guy just touching a screen with a button that does zappy looking things. Yeah, Elysse: it's cool. It's called the chaos button. I thought Gavin: it was neat. [00:37:00] Why, why is it neat? I don't, I'm missing something. I just Shawn: like the Oh, the lightning inside the button. Oh, okay. That's neat. That's a cool effect. Is it CSS? Is it JavaScript? Oh, it changes as he moves Gavin: his Shawn: finger where he taps. Metal shader and Swift UI. I like it. I think it's neat. Gavin: That is kinda neat. And he posts, uh, Shawn: yeah. Can we do that to the like Contact form button on our website. Yeah. Gavin: I hope it has like, Shawn: that reminds me of Dion at goose insurance. Shout out to a former client of ours. Actually, we might be doing some work again soon, but anyway, um, the, uh, he wanted us to make the button pulse, like, Yeah. Yeah. Like the buy now button, you wanted it to pulse so that it would like grab your attention. And we thought it was a hilarious request, but then we did it and it was really cool. Interesting. Elysse: Um, Gavin, you're a big fan of this next one. Gavin: Yeah. Zed editor, zed. dev. Um, it's like. It's just a simplified editor. Well, not simplified. It has like this really cool [00:38:00] code sharing feature. Corey actually shared it in our, in our code channel and Slack. And I started trying it and I'm a pretty diehard Vim fan. Um, so I don't use stuff like VS code or anything. So I really don't like them. I think they just kind of get in my way. Um, but, uh, this one does a really good job of like being an editor that doesn't get in your way. And has a Vim mode, but has a lot of little extra features that are kind of a pain in the ass in Vim. Um, and I've been using it ever since. I, and full disclosure, it's only been a week, but I'm like actually really in love with it. And it's insanely fast. Um, VS Code for me was always kind of like clunky and a little slow, especially with all their plugins and stuff. And then Corey and I did the, um, collab mode. I think VS Code has this too, but we, I've never tried it. We tried it in Zed. And we basically like. Can see each other's code. It's not a screen share, it's like we both have access to the code in real time. It has like a, um, audio connection. It's like pair programming. Yeah, it has an audio connection so he and I are talking and we just like talked through some code and like literally worked on it side by side. I could see where his cursor was. Oh, [00:39:00] I want to get on the Shawn: Z train. It Gavin: was fun. I highly recommend it. It's um, and it's made by the team that originally made Atom. Oh, I liked Atom. I used it for a while. Yeah, Adam was like kind of the editor that inspired stuff like VS Code and whatnot. And also the devs that made Adam made, uh, electron and they made electron so that they could build atom. So, you know, all the other tools that you use like Slack that run on Electron, you should thank the Adam Dev team. AKA, the Z dev team. I Shawn: didn't realize that A, the Adam team made electron. Yeah, I just wanna say that this Z team missed out on a copy opportunity here to call it the Z editor. Gavin: I would have not used it if it was called that Caitlin: is it a paid platform? Like what does it Gavin: work for? They do have like, they said for their monetization, cause they're like, you know, we're open source, but a company we need to make money, they're going to have, um, like premium server type stuff, I think for like commercial. So like, if you want to, um, work with your team to like, you know, bundle and do deployments and do tracking with that sort of stuff, like kind of in [00:40:00] line with your editor, there'll be like advanced features. I didn't look deep into it. Um. But I'd probably, if they had like a donate or like a, like small recurring monthly, just as like a support us, I totally would, you know, I love the editor. Shawn: Does it have like an AI bit like cursor? Cause I've been really liking cursor for like AI code complete. Yeah, Gavin: it has the GitHub code pilot, uh, built in. So while you're typing, it'll auto complete. And then on the slide, when it, on the side where it slides out, there's also like a full, um, essentially a chat GPT discussion, but with the context of your code. So instead of it just being co pilot, like you can just talk to your code too. Wow. Yeah. Very good. Very good. I would get it right now. Zed dot dev. Elysse: Sweet. Well, that's all our links. I feel like we were pretty efficient about that one today. Yeah, we I think a Nice little topic that we can dig into I know we talked about this a few times in the podcast already But with Caitlin here, I think it would be neat to ask Questions about like AI and design and art [00:41:00] and the future of that, what that looks like. Get her. Shawn: Are you using any AI tools, Caitlin? Caitlin: I use, uh, ChadGBT a lot for, um, user flows or, um, user research, more like critical thinking questions. And then I will use, um, any visuals. So those photo rendering ones, if I want to come up with some like, one illustration idea. But I think one that did catch my interest and I'm curious where it's going to go is the Adobe Firefly. So I feel like Adobe's really trying to come up, uh, with some sort of program. Because I'm, I'm sure everyone knows Figma and Adobe obviously went different ways. Shawn: Yeah, I'm so stoked about that. I Gavin: was really worried. Me too. I was sad when they joined. Right Caitlin: before Christmas, I think. Oh, I didn't Elysse: know that. Caitlin: Yeah, this is gonna be a great partnership. And then they realized we're actually competing directly with each other. I don't know how this is actually gonna work Shawn: out. I thought it was the Department of whatever. Um, like, I thought it was like a [00:42:00] monopoly sort of thing, like antitrust. I thought the government shut it down. Gavin: Oh, Elysse: interesting. Caitlin: That's good, because I know even Google right now is going through a bit of a thing with the iPhones, like the Safari browser. It defaults to that. So good on them. Hi, everyone. But yeah, Adobe is coming out with Firefly, and I did try some of the beta, and it seems to be pretty much in like, still early days, the program doesn't really do much for me right now, it gives like, basic structural vector files that you can use or base off of, but not enough to the point where I rely on it solely right now, um, but yeah, and it's funny, so literally just talking about this yesterday with my sister, just The, the pending doom of AI and design and all these articles that are coming out that are saying AI is going to be a great tool for everyone to use. You still need an empathetic touch when you're creating like [00:43:00] user flows and wireframes. But then I'm questioning the source, which is like, usually like UX academies or UX school, they're obviously trying to look at an intake. So trying to decipher like the content that's being put out, because right now the only feeler I'm getting is from articles on LinkedIn or whatever, but I'm hoping it's just like Photoshop, you know, like something that speeds up your workflow, you get more work done. More efficiently across teams. There's no, um, there's less margin for error, I would say. Um, but that's my one quarrel with AI is that making mistakes is often the nice, like, Easter egg you'll find in your design. So if you're doing like a brand exploration and you get perfect designs every time, I'm sure you'll hit the mark. But it's when you're actually doing the exploration and you make some silly mistake, it actually turns out to be a really nice, uh, unique point that you can use for your visual identity. So that's like the one thing I would say for AI is like less exploration, right? Less, um, [00:44:00] making those mistakes that would lead to like a really cool brand. Shawn: I'm seeing opportunities in like small mom and pop. business type of situations where design, um, I hate to say it's not as important, but like sometimes like a white piece of paper in Times New Roman stuck on a window on a small business that says like Closing out sale at 50 percent off is going to do as well or better than like, you know a designed piece Um, so like sort of giving visual production tools to small business owners who really don't have the budgets um, or the need for like Brand exploration, um, not that like branding can't have a major impact on a small business. It really can, um, but in like the majority of cases, they just, it's just not necessary. Gavin: Gavin, what was your take? Oh, my, my take was just like on the, um, happy accidents. And like, I find that very much with music too, is like a lot of people I, I've like. [00:45:00] Bounce Between using a DAW, which stands for Digital Audio Workstation, is basically making music on your computer and using, like, hardware, like keyboard synthesizers, that sort of stuff. And I have such a hard time with it, because it makes more sense for me to make music in a DAW, because I have everything, I can do everything very cleanly and perfectly. But there's just no like happy accidents. There's no like random moments of joy. Whereas like when I'm doing it, like, you know, like Caitlin's talking, where you're, you're just kind of messing around and you're kind of like, Oh wow. Like that was really interesting. And now that forms like the direction that you weren't originally going. And AI, I find is a lot like that, even from a code perspective. Um, and I'm sure it'll get better, but like when I'm. Trying to conceptualize an idea. I'll often use chat GPT or the like to be like, okay, like I've played with this before but like help me come up with some new ideas, but the ideas tend to always be the same. And that's just because often it's regurgitating like the most common patterns in what it's searched on the web, right? So it's like, It's hard to, like, think [00:46:00] outside the box with AI, which makes me concerned that everything starts to act and be the same, because we're all dogfooding the same thing, right? And then now creativity is stifled, which also gives opportunity for, like, I'm going to put an air quotes, the true creatives. I don't know what that means just yet, but the people that aren't just relying on that, that's a great, bad Shawn: name is what it is. Um, Gavin: that, um, you'll be able to see it and you'll be able to hear it. You'll be able to feel it when you're like, this is not AI. I mean, I'll see pictures on Twitter right now. And I can tell if it's like, you know, some guy's actual drawing versus AI, like, I feel like I can spot it immediately, you know what I mean? And that's like, I feel like you guys are probably the same too. You're like, that's definitely an AI image and it will improve, but they're just so polished or so obvious or so perfect. I like a little Shawn: soulless. Yeah. Yeah. It's like executed, but without, um, Without purpose. Quirks, in a way. Like, so I was, go ahead. Oh, [00:47:00] no, you go ahead, Sean. Oh, I was just gonna say, I was in a client meeting the other day discussing a new potential branding project and, um, it was two guys, and one of them, um, had a bunch of concepts on his phone already that he had generated using Dolly in ChatJPT. He's like, what do you think of this name and this logo concept and this name and this logo concept? And the other guy said, he's like, yeah, but like, You really need a human to add some quirks or originality to these concepts and I think he nailed it like Okay, this gives you like a jumping off point. You know, this is what a frog would look like in various incantations What does your frog look like if it's a frog, you know? That was just a random mascot. I like that though. Gavin: I think it is practically is like a jumping point right like conceptualization But not really any further Elysse: So, I, I, Oh, go ahead, Katelyn, Caitlin: it's okay. I was going to say, I was [00:48:00] just, it's like the classic, you go, no, you Elysse: go, you go. As a Canadian stand up, you go. Caitlin: Yeah, classic, like a four way stop and you let everyone go but yourself. Um, but what I was going to say was, um, when I'm, a lot of the projects, when you're starting off brands with clients, the biggest aspect is understanding them and their business and where do we start, which direction. and, If we could cut that time to a tenth of the time that it would normally take with these generated concepts, like, so getting, like, brands launched would be a lot easier. You wouldn't be spending so much money on the exploration. So that entry would be a lot easier for most brands to actually have, like, a proper visual identity system. So, I'm all for that, honestly. It saves me time, headache, and trying to figure out, like, which direction to go. Um, or just narrow down where we're looking at. Gavin: Yeah. Shawn: I like that. Caitlin did. Actually, no, it's Elise's turn for sure. I will. Elysse: Mine's more of like a bigger question that I'm happy to leave to the end, but [00:49:00] it's kind of like a overarching, like debate topic, I guess. Let's do it. Yeah, go for it. Um, I went to, I did five years at UBC. I did a BFA and, um, it arts art school is super fun, but it's super interesting in the sense that you can have somebody that conceptually thinks about. a piece very deeply and has a exceptional artist statement. Uh, the piece comes with like a lot of intent and purpose and, uh, just conceptually is like an extremely thought out piece. But in a lot of my classes, I would have people that did not the opposite, I guess, but they would, like in a sculpture class that I was in, some guy came in with like a popsicle stick and that was his piece. And he had a very good artist statement to Uh, kind of like attach onto it and conceptually, it was what he made it based off of, off of his artist statement, but it was very low [00:50:00] effort. Um, and some would argue that it was like a very bullshit way to approach, uh, I guess an art piece and it was kind of like an easy cop out to get and he got a good grade for it. Um. So I guess it's an interesting topic in that sense as well. Like I see parallels there between what's happening now between like a very thought out conceptual piece versus somebody that's just pulling something out of thin air and just conceptualizing it for the sake of conceptualizing it. Cause you can really attach, attach an idea behind anything. And that's like a, the great debate of art, right? Is what, what is art? What is craft? And I find that to just be very interesting in terms of the. Parallel between, I don't know, AI art and a fully conceptual piece versus something that's just plugged into, I don't know, any Shawn: of like, those memes where people overlay, like, the golden ratio, that, like, sort of seashell [00:51:00] looking sort of thing, onto random things, you know, or, like, onto designs, like, oh, you know, adding their own sort of artist statement onto it. Yeah, Caitlin: I know it's interesting. I think it depends on the purpose because that student that you're talking about His purpose for that art piece was to get a good grade So knowing how to bullshit the teacher and say what totally they want to hear that's his purpose But if you have someone who's creating artwork for themselves, they're going to actually be putting more thought into it. Um That purpose is going to be vastly different. Cause I also, when you're in art school, you know, when a student's literally just pulling stuff out of their ass, like it's not thoughtful, they're just saying it to get the grade. Um, but with AI design, I do feel like it depends what you're using it for. Like you're even before AI people still bullshit brands. Like people still add a lot of fluff around the reasoning and the concepts just to sell it to clients. Like that's always going to be a thing in the industry. Um, but now with AI, it's just a new medium to [00:52:00] bullshit. Yeah. Yeah. Shawn: That reminds me of, um, in grade 11, my brother, um, he really hated English class. He's like, he's more of a math and science guy. And, uh, there was a poetry assignment and it was a, it was a big part of the grade and he just was like completely against it. You know, did not want to do it that semester. And then finally, um. Like, it came down to the 11th hour, he needed to submit something to get a grade, and so he wrote a bunch of poetry about how poetry is bullshit, and the whole assignment was, like, contrived and not worth his time, and he can't believe he's doing it, you know? But he actually got a good grade, because, like, the teacher saw that he had put the effort into making some prose that represented his feelings, you know? And I was like, oh, that's cool. He, like, he knew what the purpose of the art was in that context. Gavin: Yeah, that is cool. I kind of like the [00:53:00] popsicle stick guy in that. I mean, maybe it was just like, it's common for people to do that, but I really appreciate the angle too, where they go, like, how can I use something that they're not expecting to get away with this? Right. Just that thought process instead of like, Oh, I'm going to do the work and I'm going to color inside the lines. They are way outside the lines and willing to like stretch reality in order to make it art. And I feel like. Maybe that person is actually a really fantastic artist and they were trying to push their limits, you know what I mean? And it's like, I actually really appreciate that kind of stuff. People look at me like it's a popsicle stick. That's stupid I'm like, yeah, but there there's two areas of thought there. There could been like, oh, this is just a popsicle stick I just hate this I'm gonna bring this and see if I can get away with it or it's the guy that goes like This is actually really interesting if you pause to think about the popsicle stick itself and what it could represent Not what it is sure and I'm like, I actually really like that kind of stuff Yeah, Shawn: did he consume the popsicle and what flavor was it and what did he consume the popsicle in just Elysse: the stick? [00:54:00] Just the popsicle stick. I guess like the thing with the program at UBC is is they you're like almost Forced to try a lot of mediums in your first two years to see what sticks so I had like a mandatory sculpture Welding woodworking Wow and like you try stuff and like I did like lithography. It was crazy super hands on Um, but like if you're not into it, you're not into it. And so if you're not into sculpture, you're, I'm just making like an assumption here, but you would come to class with a popsicle stick, maybe like, I don't know. Like that's potentially what this guy did. Um, yeah. So there's like, I guess there's like more layers to that, but I totally agree. Like the popsicle stick itself was. I mean, it's the same as like Marcel Duchamp, who did the urinal, right? He's like, this is art. And everyone's like, this is a urinal. Shawn: I saw that at the MoMA. Oh, cool. Really? I think there was even pubes on it. Like little curlies. Oh, gross. Elysse: I love that. Gavin: It's not a true urinal. It sounds like he Caitlin: literally went to the bathroom. Yeah. [00:55:00] Yeah. Shawn: Yeah. Just grabbed it. Um, Alice, could you weld me a roof rack for my camper van? No, I Elysse: can't. I Gavin: can't. She's the one that brought the popsicle stick to welding. Yeah, the Elysse: minute that they said that I had to be worried about electricity, I went, it's not for me, not a fan of this one. My life is at risk, not, not into this. Gavin: I know we're almost done, but speaking of, Oh, go ahead. Caitlin: I was just going to say a little disclaimer, cause I'm putting this on the record. I think the next. Company Gifts needs to be a set of swords, and I'm just playing this now, so we're ready for the next, uh, company that it's on the Gavin: internet. What style of Shawn: swords? Would they be like, British Excalibur esque, like yours? Or would they be like samurai swords? Something anime inspired? Little daggers? Caitlin: Stars, maybe even anything that's like, you know, Gavin: a Shawn: boot knife, Elysse: like a throwing knife. Can [00:56:00] we give away weapons as our staff gift? Gavin: Yeah, we can. We're all, we're all adults here. Shawn: We're new age. Yeah, exactly. Actually, I really love this idea. Yeah. We almost did like camp knives one year. Oh, that'd be cool. Yeah. We're like little Swiss army knives. Yeah. A little Swiss army knives. They're like, that's neat. Elysse: I'll uh, I'll backburn that one. I want to get some approvals by. I'm in favor. Our HR team, which is Nick, who's going to approve it, probably. Caitlin: Agencies go to Mexico and we just got customized and sent it to our employees. Elysse: Yeah, that'd be cool. Oh, God. Uh, Gavin: sorry, Gavin, what were you going to say? Oh, mine was just quick. It was a round art and I was browsing Twitter or X, whatever we call it these days. And, um, it was this guy stacking these buckets, red buckets full of sand. And, um, He just like stands there and then they fall over and he puts his hands out and everybody applauses and the whole, the whole thread was like, is, how does this art in quotes make you feel? And there was mixed like people were like, you know, you're missing the point. Other people like, this is [00:57:00] ridiculous. How can you call it art? And I had to watch it a few times to sort of feel like initially I'll watch it. I'm like, this is just some dude stacking buckets and then it falls over. And I realized for me anyway, and that's something I really like about artists, your interpretation. Is not the stacking, but the moment where he waits and knows it's going to fall and then it falls. And then the pattern that the buckets hit and the sand moves out is actually, to me, kind of interesting that moment where it goes from like, this is just a pile of buckets that this is something actually a lot more interesting now. And I was like, you know, that that's kind of my take on this and it's just like, this is just some dude with buckets and said, Elysse: I mean, Yoko Ono did that exceptionally right performance. Performance art is like a whole different category of like. Art, and like, conceptual thought, it's cool. Yeah, was Shawn: there a woman at Emily Carr who just like smeared period blood on the walls? What? Yeah. Gavin: I could see that, yeah. Yeah. Caitlin: Sorry [00:58:00] that was a classic photo where someone dropped a glove. I'm not sure which museum, but like MoMA let's say. And people thought that was one of the pieces. So people were surrounding the glove, looking at it on the floor. Thinking about it. Elysse: That's Shawn: so funny. Oh, that's so good. That makes me think of, um, uh, Caitlin, you've been on vacation recently, so like, you know when you go on vacation someplace, and then you come back and you look at your home city with new eyes? Suddenly you're like, you're like looking at every hedge and doorway and like, oh, what a neat You know, like this or that, and then eventually you lose that and gloss over it and you just live there. But that's what I find travel useful for that, because you can like see the glove and be like, is this art? Ooh, you can see the glove. Yeah, you Gavin: can always find Caitlin: something. But um, it's so funny because yesterday when I was watching, uh, Planet 3 with Beverly Housewives, whatever, um, I guess it's fine. They were featuring the whales outside the coast of Vancouver Island and I was like, that's literally [00:59:00] right outside our door. It's just, yeah, nice to be more appreciative of where, um, we live because it is a pretty awesome area. Elysse: Yeah, Gavin: it really is, except for where I live Shawn: because Gavin: you have home invaders. Sean truly needs the office knife. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Let's, Shawn: let's do those knives pronto. So, uh, I think we can wrap with that. I'm sure, I'm sure we have some work to do. Elysse: Good full circle moment. Um, well, Caitlin: thanks for joining us, Caitlin. It's good to have Gavin: you. Yeah. It's good having you Caitlin. All right. We'll see you next week guys. See everybody. All right. Bye.