February 17, 2024
Hey, hello! This week we ran into technical difficulties, so we're posting a little late. We chat AI and creativity, AI dating apps, how people are liking their Vision Pro's (spoiler, they're not), and wtf is up with Stanley cups. TTYL!
Gavin: [00:00:00] Just makes you sound more manly. Ate off the ground. Shawn: Yeah. You know what? When I was a teenager, I had a really high voice. And, um, uh, my grade six teacher called me squeaks in front of the class and embarrassed me just tremendously. I was dead. And, um, sorry to hear about that. Then I got a cold and my voice turned all manly like this. And I was like, damn, I can rock this. Ladies love it. I Caitlin: always wonder who, um, when you have like those childhood traumatic memories of like teachers bullying you or. You know, a random stranger freaking you out. Like, have I ever been that to a child at some point? Like, Oh, that's a good question. I've never Elysse: thought about that as an adult. I definitely called the teacher mom once. Gavin: I totally did that too. Worst day of my life. Yeah. That's not cool. Oh my Caitlin: God. I actually told a prof once at the end of our conversation, I said, love you. Elysse: It's one of my biggest fears when I drop off calls and huddles, I'm so worried. I'm gonna be like, okay, thanks. Love you. Caitlin: [00:01:00] Bye. Yeah. If they're nice, they'll play it off cool, but Shawn: like who says we're not AI, right? You know, we just get these scripts. I do this thing where whenever Stephanie's in the car, I just drive places that my brain wants to go, not where we're actually intending to go. It's like my brain knows that she'll correct me. So I just like, just, Oh, we always turn right here. So I'm turning right. She's like, Sean, we're going to the mall. Oh, oh, you know, like, and like, for some reason I only do it when she's in the car, like, or when I'm like really into an audio book or something, but, um, autopilot. She's like, how do you get anywhere when you're on your own? I'm like, I don't know. My brain just does this when I have a passenger who will tell me where to go. You know? Oh, Caitlin: funny. I've been getting really deep into conversations about, um, every generation has their, Corals with the younger generation kind of like, it's too different. I don't like that. Um, and the other day I asked, I was like, what do you think we're going to [00:02:00] be close minded about when we're in our, like, 60s, 70s and relationships with AI. I think that. For us, where we're like, that's just wrong. Like, Gavin: yeah, you can't Caitlin: date AI, but maybe the kids are like, get with it, mom. Like you're so old school. Like you don't know what love is or, you know, Gavin: yeah, that's an interesting perspective actually. Cause I know for sure I would have a hard time just thinking about it now, but you're right if they're getting value out of it and feel loved and feel like they're in a relationship, what, what does it matter to me? If, if that's the thing that they fulfills them, like, Hey, you know. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Shawn: You're probably right. Love has no limits, Dad. Gavin: Yeah. Caitlin: I don't know if you guys have seen Her, the movie, with um Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like, even that, it's Gavin: just like I tried some of the dating chatbots, um, more for inspiration of, uh, Steelo, like, which is a plug, it's our AI journal app, but I wanted to see how they interacted with like memory and get to know you told your wife when she caught you, right? No, she was like, she's like, Oh [00:03:00] dang, this looks more interesting than you. I'm going to download it. Um, no, but, uh, they're actually like really good, you know, um, a lot of them just sort of like, start to like ask you questions and patterns and stuff. And for how like AI is still in its infancy, but it's already really impressive and how it can engage you in a way that feels like over time. It gets to know you better and you get to know it better. Like it doesn't just constantly adjust to, you know, like when you're dating someone, you get to know their quirks, but then they're consistent with it. So then you're like, okay, that's, that's, that's person's vibe. Interesting. Elysse: But I wonder if you don't have to send it. I was going to say, you don't have to send AI to therapy. Exactly. At least I Gavin: don't think so. Not yet. Well, Caitlin: that's what I was wondering. It doesn't challenge you, right? Like that's relationships challenges you as a person, but maybe you could program it to Elysse: challenge you. Yeah. Caitlin: Um, Shawn: [00:04:00] should we rip into the links? Oh, I think Elyse needs to do our, our jingle. Our Gavin: jingle. Oh, are you going to start singing it? I'm ready. Three. Oh, Elysse: no, I cannot. I can't do that. Um, but the lead up now is making me feel weird about it. That's okay. Uh, welcome to the internet plumber podcast, everybody, where we hang on the internet as a service. Uh, you can catch our podcasts or if you listen to podcasts and if you're like me and you like to watch them, you can catch them on YouTube. Uh, it's your regular team here today. Uh, we're all like a little throaty. Yeah, I'm hearing that. Feeling that myself. Me too. Gavin keeps muting himself because he's coughing, which is a lot more polite than what I'm doing, which is just hurling over my desk. Uh, let me share my screen and we'll Gavin: get into Shawn: it. Let's do it. I didn't notice Gavin's like mute coughs. I've been debating it. I'm like, oh, can I get the mute button in time? But Gavin, you've been so Gavin: subtle. I just got it. My finger kind of hovered over it right here. I can just boop. Elysse: Quick question before we get into a link. Did you guys watch the Super Bowl Gavin: on [00:05:00] Sunday? I didn't. I heard something about Taylor Swift though. Not about the score of the game. Elysse: So I'm alone in this one, I guess. Gavin: Okay. Fulfill or educate us quickly. There's Elysse: nothing, it was, we just watched it. We, I have, uh, like it's, I'm not a football person, but like, I've started watching football every Sunday for the last like few months, which is like a very weird, it's super weird. Like, I'll just admit it. It's really weird, but we've bet on. Every single game and subs lost every time and so he had to paint his face in Chiefs colors on Sunday So he had a full face of face paint, which was wonderful Gavin: Yeah, super fun. That's so good. What was up with Taylor Swift? She someone said she won the Super Bowl. What does it even mean? Elysse: she's dating one of the guys on the Chiefs, but Everyone is like in her first year in the NFL. She made it to the Super Bowl and won. So she's like, uh, oh I see A funny [00:06:00] little Taylor Swift joke. Shawn: I heard it described as she's rebound dating America or something. She's like, her last boyfriend was a little, like, less, I don't know. American? He's British. Oh, okay, there we go. Okay, that makes sense. The joke has more context now. Anyway, so it was like, oh yeah, she just like, dated a British guy, now she's like rebound dating the most American guy possible. Yeah, Elysse: Mr. Americana. Um, all right, let's jump into it. This is a cool one. Abstract intelligence, abstractintelligence. com. Caitlin, you shared this. Caitlin: It's very lovely. So cool. I, the, the interactions with the hover effect is that you get like these pixelated grids throughout the Elysse: screen. Shawn: Um, yeah, that's cool. Oh, and how the bust falls apart in 3d. I want to do more 3d stuff. Caitlin: Yeah. [00:07:00] Um, I did ask Jeff, uh, one of our developers, if it would be easy to implement, cause how simple can it, or how complicated can it be if you just hover and a square shows up? But apparently it's a little more complicated than that. Gavin: It's like a, Shawn: that's the casual designer developer. Um, yeah, come on. How hard could it be? Like, uh, just make it look like my code Gavin: monkey code. Elysse: Have you seen that? It's super funny. This looks Shawn: like it's for a game. Oh, sorry, Elise. Yeah, it kind of does. Elysse: I know, it's okay. There's this really funny, like, video of that interaction between a designer and developer, and the designer builds this, like, really cool button where when you click it, it shifts from, like, night to day. And then they, like, hand it over to the developer and they're just, like, crying and trying to code it, like, in tears, sobbing. Very funny. Caitlin: Um, this website basically just talks about AI and the controversy and talking about, um, does it have merit? What happens if it's pulling content that's copyrighted? So, plagiarism [00:08:00] and, um, anything like that comes into play. And then also talking about how it affects, like, creative process. Um, and then also the hot Key buzzword AI, like, is kind of just everywhere, like COVID was four years ago, um, so just talking more about the context and where it can go. And then there was something interesting that it said, though, was, um, one of the quotes from, I don't remember who it was a few years ago said AI will never take away creativity. Um, and then the first thing that was released for AI was, um, images, right? So kind of went back on itself there. Gavin: I would argue that it doesn't take away the creativity. It adds to it. People that previously were incapable of, um, being creative visually due to their lack of skills in time are now able to do that. So I would say it has, um, encouraged creativity. Shawn: Yeah. To add to that, I think, um, [00:09:00] Places a higher value on physical technical skill now, um, because if anyone can produce, you know, like, uh, amazing visual digital artifacts, um, there's like very few people who could produce amazing physical artifacts, um, painting, drawing, sketching. Gavin: I might also get to the point where, um, like you can't tell the difference between AI and like true art, but right now you can still pick it out, right? Whether it's like, you know, like a fantasy type image or like a photograph. Um, it's very obvious, like it has a certain set of styles that it sort of. Revolves around that. You can kind of veer off on either end, but there's just some styles in art that you, AI just can't replicate it. It just sucks at it. And I've tried a good example is, um, I wasn't trying to replicate his work in case he listens, but Sebastian Abboud is local artist here. And I was curious if I could teach the AI to essentially make [00:10:00] Sebastian's art and it did a terrible job. It like was not consistent at all. I just could not reproduce it. Right. So when I see Sebastian's art, I'm like, Okay. I'm like, okay, that, that's clearly like not AI made or, or that sort of design. Like we've got paintings on the wall here, like this one behind me, I don't know if you can see it. AI would have a really hard time making this consistently, that style. Shawn: I'm totally going to share this episode with Sebastian, like right after, Gavin: sorry, Sebastian, for what it's worth, it can't copy you yet. You're too unique. You're a cease and desist. Shawn: I made that joke to him in DM. I was like, Oh, I'm not going to have to pay you for art pretty soon. I'm just going to feed your stuff into the machine. Yeah. It Gavin: didn't work. I did it. I did it. Caitlin: There was actually some drop Elysse: generated stuff, a merge drop. That's just AI stuff. Caitlin: Yeah, that'd be cool. Um, there was the thought of just like innovation with AI, like how much does it hinder it? Does it actually. Um, [00:11:00] bring innovation more into design. Um, but there is the thought I don't know what the saying is exactly, but if you've thought of something, someone else has already thought of it. Do you guys know anything? So I'm just wondering if AI is the same, like, can it produce innovative ideas the way that we would, um, because of the access to so much data, but at the same time, it's based off of things that have already Gavin: been created. It's also based off of prompts though. Like if I keep asking him for the same stuff, of course, it's going to produce the same thing. But if I merge different styles that I educate myself on, like, I don't know, let's say like, um, Dutch art and African art. And tell it to merge certain styles of that, like I wouldn't normally have thought of that, you know, but it probably has some knowledge of it and will produce something I've never seen before or didn't think to create. So I think in a way, yes, but it still requires human intelligence to make that happen. AI isn't to the point where it's AGI, where it would conceptualize itself. It can't do that at this time. [00:12:00] I asked Shawn: it to, um. Visualize a room designed in a combination of Maximalism and Japandi styles, and it came up with a new interior design trend called Maxipandi, which I thought was pretty damn original. Gavin: I don't love that name for some reason, but Maxipandi, I don't know, but it's interesting. I feel like I want to circle back to this next week. I'm going to write down a challenge to myself to like, try out like extremely different art styles on AI. And then I'm just going to put it on like, not a page, but like a PDF maybe to Elise, and we're going to share it and talk about it. I think it would be a fun challenge. Shawn: Wait, are you co opting one of the 10 links in next week's newsletter? Can we do that? Yes. Gavin: Sure. Elysse: Anything goes. I'm curious though. What's two, like, what's two binaries in art style? Like, give me two examples of what that would be. Like, what would, what would that look like? Because I feel like there's a correlation between, like, every type of art style in some capacity. Like, [00:13:00] even here where you take, like, a classic renaissance bust and put graffiti on it. Like, that works. Gavin: Yeah, that's true. Um, minimalism and maximalism. Elysse: Yeah, that's a contradiction. That's, that's true. You got me there. Yeah, because I Caitlin: think as soon as you start merging, it's a whole new category. It doesn't really stay relevant to either Gavin: category Shawn: afterwards. Oh, I need a bookcover. com. This is great. Gavin: Yeah. I saw this. I forget who shared this. Might've been Sebastian, actually. Man, a lot of Sebastian in this week's episode. Shout out to Sebastian. Sponsor us. Um, I actually really liked these. I didn't realize they were real books. I thought it was like, initially when I came to it, I was like, Oh, is this just like random AI stuff? But it's just like a you know collection of oh like real book covers. I love it. That's awesome Yeah, and actually find it really inspirational I kind of made me want to make a book because I was like, oh I want to make the cover now And I'm like, well, I write the book but it totally did. I was like I should write a book [00:14:00] Wow It's good when you cover the dead take the train. What a rad sounding book fiction horror books Elysse: Covers What Gavin: Oh, there's a big X. There's a giant X. SBAs are confusing. Well, it's cool. That's basically this. Yeah. If you need a, if you're writing a book. Shawn: Inspiration. Oh, I would say that from a design perspective, but I guess if you're writing a book and you need inspiration for the cover, that Gavin: too. Honestly, even like Instagram or Twitter ads, if half of them looked more like this, I would be way more interested in them. They're usually very like lazily done with that stupid app that everybody uses for Instagram. What is it called? Canva? Thank you, that one. Um, You won't even name Shawn: it. I mean, you gotta look at the budget though, between like a single book cover. They probably gave an artist weeks, if not months, to come up with these designs. I'm sure in some cases they're thrown together pretty quick, but like social assets are meant to be [00:15:00] jammed out weekly, just like boom, boom, boom, boom, get some stuff out there. I Gavin: guess, but if you have this as a resource and AI to train it, that's a pretty low barrier to entry at this Shawn: point. I guess Canva did incorporate AI and people are starting to use it, which is kind of interesting. Okay, Gavin: I've adjusted my challenge. I'm going to make six unique book covers using only AI for next week. Can we Caitlin: have accompanying, um, plots and characters for each of Gavin: them? Yes, but I need them by today. I'm going to write like a backstory. Okay. Hell yeah. I love this. Okay. When you Elysse: read it, you have to do the voices next week. Gavin: Okay, I promise I'm writing this Shawn: down. You could actually like throw a twist in there. Make them d and d plots so you can actually play them on your po. Other podcast . Gavin: Nice. I love this idea. Caitlin: Smarter, not harder. Um, do Elysse: you think that when you write a book you get to choose the artist for your book cover? Caitlin: Not always. Shawn: I think it depends on the [00:16:00] publisher. Gavin: Yeah. I wonder how many people still work with, like, honest to goodness publishers versus self publishing. Like, isn't it becoming easier to self publish on stuff like Amazon? I honestly don't know. I'm really curious about that. I think Caitlin: there's no credibility behind, like, actual publishers. Like, anyone can Yeah, it's like Canva, anyone can access it, but the quality may not be as good because with publishing companies, you have to get it approved. You have to go through like so many different steps in the Shawn: editing process, right? Yeah. And then somebody has like somewhere thought, Hey, we can make a bunch of money selling this book. Um, I don't know if that what kind of validation that is actually the investment value. Gavin: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. I wonder also about like the, um, uh, not the research. What's the word I'm looking for? Like, were they validate the things that people are saying? Like fiction obviously doesn't matter, but nonfiction often wonder like, Oh, did this person just put out this book on, you know, whatever. Diet, for example, and I'm like how does anybody like fact check this person [00:17:00] or is it's like, oh We just thought we'd release the book and it's actually very damaging to anybody that reads it I don't think you're talking about your meat diet again. No. No, I'm not trying to circle back It was the first thing that popped into my head. There's so Caitlin: many controversial books that have come out that have really questioned The idea that you can it like it's free speech Like there have been books that have been great detailed explaining how to do very legal things But they weren't able to not Um, ban them from being sold because of free speech. Elysse: Like OJ's book, which was like, I didn't do it, but if I did, this is how I would have done it. I didn't Caitlin: know that was a thing. Okay. Yeah, exactly like that. Elysse: Is that a real book? I'm pretty sure. Or no. It's either a book or he said something very similar along those lines. But it was like, I didn't do it, but if I did, this is how I would have done it. Gavin: Jeez. I guess. I mean, Caitlin: I'll look any more guilty, ridiculous. Gavin: Was the anarchist cookbook and officially published book or was that like self published [00:18:00] Shawn: thing? It was just a text document that circulated on the internet as a teenager, I like salivated over that. Gavin: Oh, me too. And I like hard printed the whole thing and put it into a, um, a duotang booklet. Yeah. This Elysse: was Sean Post being called squeaks. This is. Gavin: Your, yeah, this was our retaliation. Your Batman moment. I Shawn: was squeaks with the anarchist cookbook. It was badass. Gavin: In the bathroom with his wedgie. And he's like, got his book. He's like, I'm going to teach you kids. Shawn: Hack the school's phones. Gavin: Oh, we fit a lamp into it. Yeah, we've got a lamp. Oh, sad. We had no lamp last week. This Caitlin: is pretty cool. One. This is a 3D printed tiger. Is it clay? With a round. Oh, it's huge light around it. It's wow, it's huge. Gavin: Um, it's like the actual size of a lion. Yeah, Elysse: it's pretty big. Um, I don't know Caitlin: what description, description, uh, why Gavin: it Shawn: does remind me of the lie in the witch in the wardrobe. Totally, totally. I Caitlin: just recently re watched that. I was just finished Lord of the Rings, and I was like, I [00:19:00] want something in the same genre, so I watched Narnia. Which Nice. It's Elysse: close. Same, same. Same, same. Um, I don't know what Gavin: it's made out of. I think it said at the top there, it was like, fiber infused plastics or something. Yeah. It was near the top. Uh There. FRP or Fiber Reinforced Plastics makes this lamp the best in the lighting industry. So 3D Elysse: printed? That's basically a nice way of saying it's 3D printed. That sounds like Gavin: a really fancy way of saying it's 3D printed. If Caitlin: someone were to buy this, how much would it cost if they wanted to put a lion with a circular light around its neck in their house? Elysse: 5, 5, 000 pounds? Gavin: 5, 000 pounds, isn't that like 10 grand? Yeah, Elysse: it's pretty close. And it will ship for 12 hundo. Caitlin: Under what circumstance would you guys Gavin: buy this? If I had too much money, I guess. Caitlin: Yeah. Elysse: I mean, it's pretty big. It needs space, too. Yeah. [00:20:00] You need, like, a house where you could do a full, like, 360 walk around it. Gavin: Yeah, it needs to be, like, in your large entrance on, like, a nice throw rug. I mean, Shawn: you could put one on either side of your driveway. I was Gavin: thinking that, like, at the airport. Is it waterproof? If it's plastic, it's waterproof. Well, I'm sorry. I meant the light, like, Can you put it in the pool? Can my kids swim with it? Oh, that would actually be dope. If the LED was waterproof, and it was in the bottom of the pool, just down there, you could swim and like, go swim around the glowing lion. You Caitlin: know how many people have remote control cars right now? Like those like, tiny adult size. Do they have boats for children yet? Cause if no one has done that, yeah. Oh yeah. For sure. Like remote control boats where you can like drive it in the pool. Oh yeah. I Elysse: think they were meant for like old men in like, like country clubs at first. I'm not an old Gavin: man. I like driving those. No, no, no, no, no. That's not what I mean. I Shawn: think she's talking about when you can physically put your child into. Gavin: [00:21:00] Oh, Elysse: I don't know. Gavin: That would be dope though. I don't know if I feel comfortable with my kids like cruising around out of arm's distance. I guess if they got a life jacket on. Yeah. It's basically a mini kayak with a motor. Exactly. I'd probably be okay with this. Caitlin: That'd be really cool. You have cup holders. Um, you could, you could attach several boats to each other. So it's like a line of kids just zooming around. Gavin: I don't know. That doesn't sound dangerous at all. Elysse: Selling features, cup holders. Gavin: You Shawn: can put a sippy cup in it. Elysse: Um, Sean, this is all Caitlin: you need Elysse: as a home security. You get two of these on either side of your driveway and just light them up at night. No one is going to come to Gavin: your house. That's a good point. Shawn: I wonder if that led band could be red, make it look a little more menacing. Yeah, that'd be spooky. That buys granted on our podcast about internet lighting yet, like Boha Studios and, um, Maybe what's that other one Gavin: reeducate us [00:22:00] on your rent, man. Shawn: I bought so many interesting lighting fixtures, excuse me. I just have to clean my throat. I bought so many lighting fixtures. Um, after seeing like Instagram ads for Boho studios. And then there's another one that is slipping my mind, but I'll put it in the show notes. Cause I'm angry. And, uh, there are all these like drop ship Chinese products that, um, don't fit standard. Um, like. American, um, outlet things like these lights are so cool. Um, and they're expensive. They're not selling them like. Like what they are, which is like kind of cheap Chinese products. Um, no shade to the Chinese. It's just, you know, um, They get a mass producing. Yeah, so almost every single one I got either didn't fit the standard outlet Um, like the round thing that the light has to go on. So then I had to like order separate parts and hack the light myself to like make it fit, you know, um, [00:23:00] or they just didn't work. Like I bought two, um, sconces. One of them just doesn't light up. And then, um, there was, yeah, just, I don't know, I must have ordered six or seven lighting fixtures and like half of them had issues. I was like, man, but it's hard to find cool lighting locally. Like the designs of these things are really neat. So somebody's putting some effort into like making these designs and then they're obviously trying to capture the North American market. I'm like, I don't know. It just, just irritated Gavin: me. Elysse: Do you think sconces are underrated? Gavin: I love sconces. Elysse: Yeah, I think we like I would love to get some sconces. I just don't want to hardwire them It seems like a lot of work. Shawn: Yeah, it's pretty easy I mean you might shock yourself a little bit, but no biggie. You're supposed to turn the breaker off, Sean. I know, that's what my wife says too. Um, the uh, that's what his eulogy will say. Gavin: Ooh, this one's a moon! Check this one out. [00:24:00] Yeah, oh, that's cool. It's the texture of a moon in like this round lamp. That's actually kind of dope. Yeah. Yeah. Elysse: Love that. Gavin: Um, Shawn: Oh, when it's off, it's not a full, like it's not, yeah, you see right through it. It's just a ring with a moon in it. Oh, that's really cool. Fossil. They have the coolest designs. Um, yeah. Anyway, I bet if you order that thing, it's not going to work. It will be a hassle. Caitlin: Um, yeah. I'd say check out Etsy. Honestly, there's so many vendors that sell custom stuff. So Shawn: my last reno, we ordered a ton of stuff off Etsy from actually like a Ukrainian supplier or whatever. Um, But then the war and everything, they just weren't selling this time around. So we ventured out to find other stuff. And now there's a bunch of the Chinese stuff on Etsy too. Like they really need to do a better job of keeping dropshippers Gavin: off there. I tried to look on there too, and it became really saturated of just like. Stuff you'd find, yeah, on like Amazon or, um, uh, what's the other one? AliExpress? Yeah, you really, like, You gotta dig now. Shawn: Yeah, [00:25:00] Etsy needs to lean back into the handmade. What about these? Elysse: Do you need Gavin: these for your D& D? Uh, I need those for my D& D room. Hell yes. They're alligator wall mounts. Caitlin: My favorite lamp is right here. I Shawn: just have to show it. Whoa, I Gavin: love it. Oh, that's nice. That is nice. It looks like something you'd be on like an old whiskey table. Caitlin: Yeah. But it's, I got it off the site, Hugo, H U E space G A H, um, really cool store. If you're looking for, um, it's a little expensive, but they have a lot of sales. So Shawn: where was that link when I was having the lighting discussion and the team slack during my renovation, Caleb, I was too busy buying mine. These are Gavin: cool. Yeah. It's a neat lamps. I'm excited to put alligator lamps in the office before Sean figures out what I've done. Caitlin: Oh, man. Uh, Elysse: web design inspiration catalog curated design. Looks like these are a bunch of like cool, uh, like landing pages. [00:26:00] Some just design inspo. Shawn: Pretty sweet. For clarity, curated. design is the URL. Oh, nifty. Gavin: I like that the words spread away when you scroll down like that. That's kind of neat. Yeah. Shawn: Kind of neat. Are those brilliant glasses? These, um, the, the brilliant frame, um, was that in Arlington this week? Uh, I'm not sure. Oh, I met that guy in San Francisco and, uh, we almost worked together, like, super early on, um, didn't work out for whatever reason, and, uh, now I'm kinda like, damn, we should have, should have done something there. The one that got away. Yeah. Yeah. This is not the thing, whatever the thing you're looking at. It's the frame. Um. This one? Gavin: No. No, it's the like left side, one black background, the Shawn: one that looks like a physical product. Gavin: Oh, [00:27:00] I like the animations at the beginning Shawn: there. Super cool guy. Anyway, he lives in Singapore with his wife. They're really nice. My wife and I had dinner with them. Um, I was just down there fundraising in the valley and we were like, um, hanging out and uh, Is this the Monocle guy? Yeah, it's the Monocle guy. Gavin: Yeah. Oh, okay. I Caitlin: saw this this morning on Instagram. That's crazy. Oh, Shawn: interesting. Yeah. It's blown up. That like, so cool. Originally he. Um, his name is, um, Bobak, um, but, uh, originally he just had like a monocle and we thought that was cool. What I thought was really cool about it at the time, I don't know if they still do this, was that it recorded literally everything, um, but didn't save it unless you tapped and then it would go back 15 seconds and forward 15 seconds to take a clip. So it would be like, you'd be like living your life normally and you're. Daughter would do something adorable and you'd be like, oh capture that and it would actually like capture it back in time Because it had been rolling [00:28:00] already just not saving. I thought that was a cool idea. Gavin: That's cool. Caitlin: Yeah. Yeah, my curiosity about this is Legality and privacy like I know some country. Yeah, take a photo. You actually can't mute yourself like all phones. I don't China, maybe Japan. Um, that has to have the sound of the camera. You can't turn that off so people can be aware when it's recording. Mm-Hmm. . But this opens up 'cause obviously as a woman, I'm literally like, I would be petrified if some of the experiences I've had with guys stalking me had access to a product like this. Yeah, fair enough. Like I have been filmed secretly before, so this is kind of like a Gavin: scary Shawn: you. Yeah. I guess you can't really tell it's a camera right. Caitlin: Yeah. Or even if it's recording or if they save it, like, who knows? Um. Elysse: Yeah. That's a great Caitlin: question. So I'm wondering how that works. Because can you record people? Day to day? What do you mean? Like, can you legally record someone without their knowledge and keep it? No, Shawn: you're not allowed to. Like, good. Gavin: Not [00:29:00] without their knowledge, but like, you know, security cameras do it all the time, but people know they're there. Right? Shawn: Yeah. Yeah. And I think you actually are supposed to have stickers. Um, that say you have security cameras and your cameras are not supposed to be public facing. So like even as a business, we're not supposed to point to camera at the street to just catch all passersby. The camera is meant to point at our private property. Um, in the case of intruders. Gavin: Interesting. Interesting. I'm really excited to see where these glasses go. They look dope. I would, I would, I would wear these right now. Those black ones. Hell yeah. Holy shit. 3, 400. I don't know. Elysse: 350 USD. Gavin: So that's crazy. Oh, I saw some extra zeros there. Um, 350 bucks. That's cheaper than the glasses I'm wearing now. Caitlin: Yeah. And you can get your prescription in there. That's kind of Gavin: cool. Can you order these? Oh, pre order. Oh, wait, I'm going to wait for a review. Oh, I guess Elysse: so. Prescription, it goes up a little bit, but that's, that's actually, it makes sense. That's Gavin: still pretty reasonable. Caitlin: Regular prescription glasses cost that much sometimes. Just get the Elysse: [00:30:00] monocle. Wow. Gavin: Interesting. Shawn: Oh, have we talked about prescription glasses? Not to tangent, but, um, like I just go to Warby Parker or Clearly Contacts or Kits, one of these sort of cheap glasses places, and you can tell the difference between like the 30 pair and the 150 pair, um, but in no world am I walking into LensCrafters in the mall and spending 500 a pair, um, but some people like to go in and try them on. This is why Canada needs more Warby Parkers. I don't know if we have. Like, does Vancouver have a Warby Parker? Maybe they do. Um, but it is nice to walk in and try on a pair of glasses. But that's the problem is like, even Warby Parker is more expensive compared to the like, online only ones because they got to support that overhead. I just don't like the idea of supporting like, a national chain of mall retail spaces when I buy my glasses. Elysse: Yeah, that's Caitlin: fair. I've had the same [00:31:00] frames though, for seven years now. And they were like 300 when I bought them Shawn: originally. But how much does it cost you to replace the lenses? Uh, Caitlin: I've replaced them I think twice in the entirety of it. Gavin: So like, lost it for officially frozen. Shawn: There you go back. Oh, we lost you. You're back though. Hi, Gavin: I'm Caitlin: back. Um, , but I think I replaced the lenses maybe like twice and that was like $150. Shawn: Okay. So, oh, not bad. I mean, those lenses are $15 worth of plastic, probably carved on a machine that maybe cost $10,000. True. But, uh. So we're getting hosed on the lenses. I recently did the same though because I had three pairs of Warby Parkers that my prescription changed. I almost said subscription and I'd like, as I said it, I'm like, what is the word I want here? My eye subscription. My eye subscription. Oh, that's a whole nother topic. But anyway, um, the, uh, So now I've, like, renewed three pairs of Warby Parkers that I love, um, [00:32:00] but it costs, like, 150 bucks for each set of frames. And the Warby Parker the whole glasses altogether cost less than that when I bought them new. Interesting. Elysse: Interesting. Um, I I do what you do, Sean. I get my glasses from, like, like, little boutique places online, but Like, I got these, but I don't I don't, like I'm My toxic trait is that I don't wear my glasses. This is the person that I am. It's like, I need them to see, but I'm like, no, don't, I don't want them. I Caitlin: mean, I'm not wearing mine, Sean. Do you have to wear yours? I Shawn: wear contacts. Oh. Yeah. I used to wear glasses all the time, and then I got married and, you know, read into that what you want. I don't know. Gavin: I don't even want to Caitlin: unpack that. This is why Elysse: Sean is taking right turns when he's supposed to be going to the mall, because he just can't see. Caitlin: Or he can't drive to places because he can't see either. That's a good point. Oh man. Oh boy. Elysse: Residua. Residua. ai. [00:33:00] It's outside of the chat box. What does that mean? Yeah, it looks like a I don't know. Gavin: Wait, what's the headlines up there? It says, like, discoverable, fun, proactive, contextual. Okay. Caitlin: It's saying that most AI interfaces Shawn: are not. Is it a thesaurus? Elysse: Um, it could be. What's it called? Fun, intuitive, proactive. They'd be correct. I know. Um Uh, Residua is reimagining how people engage with AI. But this is like all that there is Gavin: on this. This is an email trap. Tell me what it does. Elysse: Oh, so many words to read. Turning information into meaning. Chat, Caitlin: interfaces for AI inherently limit our ability to have rewarding experiences with new technology. They keep saying the what, but they don't say the how or solution or just give me, give us your email. Shawn: Where's the This could be like they haven't figured out the how. Gavin: So they're like, what would you like to Shawn: see? Yeah, yeah. We're going back to [00:34:00] Theranos here. Yeah. Hmm. Elysse: Yeah. Kind of neat. It's like, not a lot of. Oh, they're currently working on. Shawn: Interesting. Wait, did this Oh, I see. This came off the Residua thing, so this is also a work in progress. Interesting. I think we shared this because the Blobby 3D animation was a fun front end execution. And we didn't dig much deeper before sharing. Sorry. Gavin: The animation is pretty dope. Elysse: Uh, yeah, it's cool. Um, I can't say that I know what it is fully, but we can move Gavin: on. It's not not AI. Caitlin: Love this site. Sorry. I just got so excited when I saw that. Oh my God. This Elysse: site that we're looking at? Gavin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like, I feel like Elise trolls me with one site every year or every, every week. What the fuck is going on right now? Elysse: So Riley shared this on Friday and I think she shared it with the idea that it was like, wow, this website looks like it's from 1996 [00:35:00] and it looks really bad. But I was like, wait, wait, wait. I think Caitlin's going to love this. Shawn: And I mean, it's, it's legit from 1996. I'm gonna check bonai do ca for those following along at home. Gavin: Also shout out to Bon bonai bc. Do ca Yeah, sorry. BC Caitlin: ca shout out to this company. I'll Elysse: pay somebody a hundred dollars to, to put their credit card information here. Gavin: That is not a secure form. I guarantee it. Unless it goes to like, um, PayPal or something. Shawn: Oh, here it is. Okay. I'm going to view the source and see when it actually was coded. Like if they have one of those, like. Gavin: All the text is like the classic blue, like the default. Yeah. Caitlin: It says last modified 2021. Shawn: Wow. Okay. Okay. So this is like just a commitment to a Gavin: lost ideal. In Saanich, BC. Good on you guys. I'm, I'm happy for you, I guess. Shawn: Do you think this Gavin: is like, Shawn: is this like business owner as webmaster? They're [00:36:00] rocking the webmaster title. Yeah, so Caitlin: this makes me feel like I'm in a mom and pop store. Like, all the websites trying to look all extravagant, like clean UI, all look the same. This, I saw this, I was like, for my designer eyes, it's so refreshing to see something different. Even if it's not like technically the best. I love it. I don't know. Gavin: That's an interesting take. It certainly makes you feel, excuse me, like you're buying from, like, I don't want to say a legitimate person, but I see what you're getting at there. It feels a little more authentic. You're like, this is someone that just loves selling bonsais and like the site is just a median to get them to you. You know what I mean? There's no way I involved in this. I'll tell you that. No, by far, Caitlin: by far, Bon. Gavin: Yeah, that was really bad. The Shawn: whole stylesheet is inline, and there's about 16 classes defined. Is it built Gavin: with tables instead of divs and stuff? Yeah, Shawn: it is. Gavin: They made it with Dreamweaver! This is Shawn: great. Is Gavin: Dreamweaver still a [00:37:00] thing? I hope not. Caitlin: No, they made it with Google Docs. It's Gavin: nice. Yeah. Oh, I don't know. Oh, I feel responsible to buy one of these bonsais now, just because I'm bashing them too hard. I actually really love bonsai trees. Beautiful. Caitlin: They're so Elysse: beautiful. So many different variations of bonsais. Gavin: This is a great store. Yeah, actually, I didn't, I didn't know that. I always thought bonsai was like, if you, someone says bonsai, like the little tree in the pot, that's like all crooked and shit. Like, that's what I imagined a bonsai to be. Do they have Shawn: all these? Like plants on site, because I want to go wander around the nursery if they do. It looks like a great place to Elysse: shop. Let's see. Shawn: That's one of my favorite weekend activities. Just go bum around the nursery, see what plants I can buy. Welcome to my home. We should Gavin: do a field recording on the podcast where we do a live, uh, live cast while we go walk around different places. Caitlin: What do you think of your website? Gavin: I love this idea. Come on. That'd be great. We'd get the serious Shawn: views. I'd watch that. I'm just expanding scope out here. I don't want to have to [00:38:00] prepare for the podcast. I like to roll in here with a coffee and hop on. Elysse: Oh man. I love it. I love it. Um, I, I asked in the chat, like for me, this feels like brutalism, you know? It's just like, the vibe is, maybe it's just the grayness, it just reminds me of like, really old, like, you know when you go to like a, like Simon Fraser University and it, the buildings make you like a little sad? Shawn: I, I love Brutalism. Honestly, there's a Brutalist building up the road and I'm like, one day I want to buy that building. Wait, which building? It's the big concrete and glass one up on the corner of, uh, Fitzwilliam and Wallace. It's where Ray is. Oh, that one. Gavin: Yeah. Oh, I hate that building. What? I Caitlin: think you're alone on that one. Unless Scoliese feels the same, but Elysse: What about Brutalism? Yeah. No, I'm not a Brutalist person. [00:39:00] Yeah, um, plane. so. Gavin, you really liked this. You and Gavin: Corey. I liked, um, the look of it and the edge of it. It's an open source project management tool. And we've been like between some. We used Jira for a while. I really hate Jira. And it's too expensive. So we've been like, we tried using Notion for a little bit. It wasn't quite working. It's a little brittle. And then someone shared plain, which looked promising. Um, mostly cause I liked the idea that was open source and actually written in Django and next as like the front and back end, which is the stack we primarily use. I was like, Oh, we could hack on this, but I actually had a hell of a time getting this to run properly on my digital ocean box. I like had it running okay on my desktop and then I was like, Oh, yeah. And then I put it on digital ocean. I just like constantly ran into deployment issues, weird errors. I was like, Oh man, I was, I was kind of excited for it. Doesn't this just Caitlin: feel like going back to the OG Trello board, the way that it's laid out? Gavin: Yeah, it's similar. It's funny because that's what I've started to use is OG Trello, and it's been an absolute joy. It's great. [00:40:00] Sometimes it's just Shawn: better. Yeah. Maybe we adopt Trello. I don't want to sidetrack this with a conversation about which PM tool we should use. That's a year long discussion that's ongoing. Um, the, uh, can I rant about like SaaS products though for a minute? In no world should a SaaS tool cost me over 1, 000 a month or even 100 a month, I want to say. But, um, like some of these tools. It's like, if I have a thousand users, I still don't think it should cost a thousand dollars a month, like, and as a maker of SAS tools, I'm like, okay, we help you build your business. You go ahead and like, do what you want, man. I just, I feel like SAS has gotten out of hand. People, people are robbing their users blind. Like it really has gotten out of Gavin: hand for sure. Yeah. I agree that like different price points make sense because sometimes you're using. Other tooling that in turn costs the [00:41:00] SAS product money. Um, so it's tricky there, but yeah, I, I agree that a lot of them are way overpriced. Like we'll, I'll use JIRA for an, a quick example. We upload a couple images. It's mostly all text based and that's it. And to run that database does not need to cost us 1, 200 for the 25 people that we have on it, right? Like that is an enormous overhead for how little data it carries. Shawn: I can go to my local cafe, spend 20 bucks, get a delicious meal and a coffee, and a friendly human will talk to me, ask me how my day is going, make a little quip or a joke, you know, I can sit at a nice table in a comfy environment for 20 dollars, and like, No way is Jira giving me more value than that every month 1, 200. Yeah, Gavin: I Caitlin: don't know if that's your experience that bad or that you just really like to go out in the world and See people like I don't Gavin: know. Jira's really good. Oh really It's [00:42:00] awful. You're lucky on the, being on the design team, you don't have to use it. You would die inside every time you open it. Yeah, Shawn: the designers have really held the line on Jira. I don't know if that's Nick, just like looking out for his brethren. Probably. But, uh, yeah, the designers have just never adopted Jira. How did they sneak out of that? Caitlin: I did use Jira for some time, but Oh, and this is also another, like, smoke behind mirrors. Tanaban board, waterfall, uh, all these, like, PM terms, like, That's a whole market. And then you learn how to do all those individual ones and you pay money for it. It's like, Gavin: Uh, that, that's the catch. It's like, The last thing that you just said is the catch. It's like, you pay money for it. They're there to sell you a book, right? It's, it doesn't really, it really is. Caitlin: Oh Elysse: yeah. Like agile and all that stuff. That's too Gavin: funny. The thing Shawn: is, is like these books. So the lean startup. I mean, okay, I only read half of it, but the first [00:43:00] half is great. A lot of good ideas in there. I find with a lot of business lit, like you start reading the book and you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, three, four chapters in, and then they just start rehashing the ideas in a more longer winded way. I'm like, okay, okay. The last half of this book could have been an email. Gavin: Yeah, it's true. I agree. But people won't buy your 30 book if it's 100 pages. Yeah, like a little post it note. Yeah. Unless you're 37 signals, then you can pull it off. Boy, does a head Shawn: cold make me sassy? I feel like, uh, I don't mean to cast a lot of shade on this Gavin: episode. Elysse: I mean, Friday, before you got sick, that's, you literally posted that on General Channel. You're like, I was feeling sassy. Gavin: Yeah. About sass products. Is that Shawn: nice? Sassy about sass. Okay, new t shirt just dropped. Caitlin: I put the sass in sass products. Sorry. Elysse: That's a good t shirt. Shawn: Um, what Elysse: is this? You shared this. This is, uh, Shawn: [00:44:00] Oh, I didn't know we could share tweets in the newsletter. That's cool. Oh, God. Gavin: Yeah. Yeah. We can't. We can't. This is, this was a mistake. Don't share more tweets, Sean. No, I can't. Anybody else can. Elysse: Um, Yeah, you said that this is the only app that should be used for Vision Pro, which I actually think is, like, this is cool for, like, doctors. Gavin: Yeah, it's amazing. Shawn: It looks like an actual useful use case. Well, it's their, um, it's like an MRI visualization tool. So, like, they can take a whole brain MRI, which is like a 3D scan of a brain, and then they're, like, slicing and looking at different pieces of the brain and analyzing it and zooming in. It's actually Gavin: really fascinating, being able to just like manipulate it in front of you and move it around. I mean, you could do this in software with a, you know, 3d program and stuff, but it just feels different in VR, you know, it's, um, Shawn: yeah. I feel like the vision pro is [00:45:00] like more of a work tool than it is a play tool. It's like a Mac book. The Mac book is like, you know, the coder army special, um, standard issue. Like maybe the vision pro is going to be standard issue at your job in future. Gavin: I think that's their play. Like, if you look at all their ad material, they rarely show like any game stuff or even the cinema stuff. Like they always lean into like, Hey, I'm on like this work call. Oh, I'm like pulling up my work stuff while I'm like out of the office. And then there's a couple of times in the evening where they're like, Hey, let's watch a video and then they end. Right. I Caitlin: think I'm curious how this will like integrate, integrate, sorry. Cause like. This is, the product's amazing, like the physical 3D aspect to it where you can walk around something and see it is fantastic. The way you get to see that is if you put something on your face. Like, do I want something on my face all day, you know? Yeah. Like physically on it. So I feel like that's something that's being missed a little bit is Gavin: like I think it depends on [00:46:00] context though Like me walking around like that casey neistat video. I think we talked about it last week him walking around town I would do it a couple times just for fun to get a laugh from people but in practicality if If I was wearing it right now, we're on this podcast and I was seeing you guys, like I'm seeing on my screen and I could interact with it. I would absolutely do that because I'm sitting here with headphones on. I usually have my headphones on anyway, and I'm looking at a screen. I don't see much difference between this exact setup versus me sitting here with goggles on and some headphones in and interacting with it in a slightly different way. So like on a day to day work. Um, experience, I would absolutely wear them all day, like for, for just, yeah. Caitlin: What if other people you're looking at have the goggles on and you don't see their eyes? Gavin: I don't look at other people while I'm working. I'm looking at my screen, but that's a good point. I'm just trying to think like in my day to day. Yeah. Yeah, Shawn: I guess if I looked over at Mulder right now across the office and he had goggles on. Whatever. Gavin: Whatever. Yeah. I don't know if it would bother me. When I look at Sean, I see his feet [00:47:00] and I see a monitor as his head. So at least I'd be able to see like his hair. From Caitlin: a work Elysse: perspective, it makes sense. Like people, to me, it's the same as like, if you're sitting at home and you're like, I don't know, doing something. It's like the equivalent to just being on your phone all the time, you know, like I don't want to have a conversation with someone who has a headset on because that seems seems really silly. Gavin: Yeah, no, I agree. Like as a human interaction, I could see maybe the movie night thing where it's like, let's say they make this cheap enough. I don't need a big TV in my house anymore. And it kind of takes up a lot of space anyway. Whereas like we, if me and the family could sit on the couch, Everybody has like a cheap set of these goggles on that, you know, maybe collectively cost the price of a decent TV. And we all watch the same movie together? I'm like I'm kind of okay with that, especially if it's like this big screen. Like it feels like we're at the theater But I can look over see my kids. We're all eating the popcorn It's not much different than going to the theater right now. We're wearing those. Um, 3d glasses, right? It's like I mean, it's a little different but [00:48:00] I can see that Shawn: you see an avatar of your kids, which is kind of like I don't know, post apocalyptic, Gavin: but Elysse: right now, if you wanted to do that, it would cost you 25, 000. Gavin: Well, yeah, exactly. Yeah. But it's not always going to be that. Right. I bet you eventually get down to like 500 bucks a pop. Yeah. Shawn: I hope movie theaters don't go away. They're dying a little bit, but like, I feel like we need one good movie theater in every city, for sure. Caitlin: I think streaming was just so exciting when it came out, because there was so much content, like, so quickly. And now I'm noticing, I'm like, I cannot look at another streaming service, I want to go out and actually see a quality film. And sit there and actually have good audio and not look on my tiny little screen, Elysse: like. Gavin: Yeah. My wife and I've actually been really into like live plays or theater, I guess, whatever you call it. Um, and it, it's been a lot of fun. Like even some of the local stuff that isn't like super high, um, high budget. It's just so fun to see like [00:49:00] real people interact and just like, I don't know. There's, there's something so authentic and interesting. And I find myself like laughing out loud where I don't normally do that at the theater, maybe cause I'm like trying to be quiet or whatever, but like, it just feels so much more engaging and maybe it's just age too. I don't know. Or I'm, or I'm sick of like streaming and videos in general. Elysse: Live plays are more fun. It's also like you get to see someone practice like a, uh, art and like do something that's like good at. That's also cool. Gavin: Yeah. Shawn: Yeah. Um, this, I shared this link, Navy. Um, I'm not a hundred percent sure. I mean, it clearly says it's the social network for people that love domains. I'm like, that's neat. I buy domains that I squat on. I'm sure a lot of people do that. Um, so kind of a. It's by Drew Wilson, who is a, like, designer slash coder that I've followed for, oh man, must be 20 years. And uh, I read his book a while back, full disclosure, [00:50:00] I read half of it. Anyway, he's a great dude. Gavin: At least you're consistent. That's true. eatshitanddie. xyz, that's my favorite domain so far. This is great. This is gold. Uh. A product file? That's triggering. I don't like that one. That's why no one wants it. Yeah, I'm out. Search Shawn: dot compare is kind of neat. Gavin: Hyperchanged. I have a new idea for our Slack channel, like we need more distractions. We have our band names channel, which is going on. What did we find? It was seven years old or something now it's like thousands of band names. We need to have a domain name channel, but you have to like, make sure the domain name's available and then post it in there. That's the requirement. I Elysse: really just like this one, Gavin: uh, app. Uh, I like it. Oh, that's great. Caitlin: Also shout out to Derek, uh, one of our developers posting in our, one of our channels saying to buy Tesla stocks, literally I'm like. Did you do it? I [00:51:00] did it! I took financial advice from one of our developers, Gavin: guys. Garrett's pretty smart with the finances, though. He's like all into stock watching and trading and stuff. Caitlin: He could convince me of anything. I was like, uh, sure, let's do it. Gavin: So, what, did Tesla rally? Caitlin: Uh, I bought at the wrong time. He, he had the right. Timing I came like a week late, but oh, I was convinced But next time I'll I know when to go in because when these companies put out reports the best time to do it I think is right I still, I still don't even know. Derek, help me out. Um, someone. Shawn: So did he drop the tip like right before the report came out and because he's been following Tesla so closely, he knew the report was going to be positive? He put Caitlin: it out right after the report was posted. Shawn: Okay, and then like the major media hadn't like totally glommed on yet or something? Caitlin: There was like a 20 week low or Something like that. Um, it's like a two year [00:52:00] low when he posted it. So I bought Tesla stocks guys. I'm part of the tech bro community, right? Yeah, I day trade don't Elysse: forget. I don't get why people keep buying Tesla's Get it and I think it's because I see all these videos of people who have like steering wheels where the fabric is just like completely disintegrated and their side mirrors are hanging off And you can literally rattle the cupholders with your hand and like move plastic parts on the car. I don't get it. I don't understand. Gavin: I sort of Shawn: imagine that a lot of that is just like, like for some reason, media and journalists just hate Tesla. Um, it's like they have it out for them or something like, um, All the Tesla experiences I've had, which is like admittedly not many, but like my friend drives a Tesla, um, it's a super high quality automobile and like next level design. It's gorgeous. It's the fastest car I've ever driven. Gavin: To be fair though, [00:53:00] he has the Model S, not the Model 3. The Model 3 is like the budget civic Tesla. Right. Okay. So I've never been in a Model 3. I've only been in a plant, which is like You've been in the luxury versions of Teslas. So Elysse: maybe it's the low end versions that are just shit, but like Even that wonderful guy who did the, the guy that I like on YouTube that does all of the reviews of stuff. What's his name? The one that you like, Gavin: Gavin. Oh, Casey Meistad or Marquis? Elysse: Marquis. Yeah. Um, he did one of the Cybertruck and he even called out that the quality in the interior is, it's improved slightly, but it's not up to where it should be in terms of like an improvement standard. Good point. I don't know. Shawn: You're the only one of us that drives a Polestar, so. That thing's dope. I Gavin: gotta ride in it. It's super dope. Elysse: Yeah. It's a cool car. Yeah, it's a cool car. Um, but, but with a Polestar, like the quality is just a Volvo, which is Gavin: like, it's just a Volvo on the inside. Yeah. Yeah. It feels nifty. Like that thing, you close the doors and it's like chonk. You know? It feels like there's, [00:54:00] there's, there's something there. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Shawn: That's like the difference between German cars and American cars though. Like for some reason, Volkswagens. Like, even your cheapest golf, like, the, the, um, I call them holy shit handles. I don't know what else to call them. That's what they are. The handles, they have the slow, like, release, the doors feel great. Gavin: Yeah. Yeah, and then there's the American ones where it's like, it's like Sean back in the day, a little squeaky. Caitlin: And the cup holders Elysse: are so big that you can put a big gulp in it, or your stupid Stanley fucking cup. Yeah, your Gavin: pink Stanley, get it. I'm so glad I got to fit in a little squeaky one more time. Shawn: Pink Stanley is not a bad band Gavin: name. Pink Stanley. Pink Stanley's. Yeah. That's a good one. I feel like that sounds like a drag show. Pink Stanley's? Yeah. Yeah. I'd go see that. Yeah. Needs to be more drag shows on the island. There's always drag shows in Vancouver, but there's never any good ones on the island. Shawn: I think there's [00:55:00] too many, um, rednecks. That's what I was gonna say. There's too many rednecks here for, for people who like to dress up Caitlin: in drag. It's a stupid podcast. Like, this specific episode is so shady. Gavin: It's a shot. He's Elysse: feeling Gavin: spicy today. It's Shawn: working. Sad. I need, I need to have a nap maybe . Gavin: That's really funny. This fragment thing, whatever this is, is beautiful. I love, I'm a big fan of minimalism and whatever this interface is trying to show me, I like it. Mm. There's the rainbow Shawn: button. Nice. That makes the designers cry. Why? How the rainbow, sorry. The, the developers, the Gavin: front end deaf. Oh, integrate it. Yeah. That how you think that, Shawn: that gradient Do the gradient thingy look glow? Yeah. It's nice. Elysse: Yeah, it just does it by itself too. I don't have to like interrupt with Shawn: it. And ask them how they did it. I feel like that's easy to do. Save the designer. No, Caitlin: like if I were to get scrappy, I would create like an animation and like After Effects or something of a gradient and just put a div around it. And that'd be the background with a Gavin: transparent. Yeah. There's a better Shawn: way [00:56:00] though. Like. So like in CSS you can define a gradient glow on the button and that's easy. It doesn't move. It doesn't do anything So now you're like, oh, okay, like do I use a canvas and like an SVG? gradient and Like use JavaScript to animate it or can I do it with a CSS animation? it introduces like a world of complication to and I might be telling on myself here as Somebody who has not tried to code Rainbow gradient in a number of years. So there could be somebody on the team who's like, no, it's easy now, Sean. Like, get what the tide is. Get over it. Gavin: Mm-Hmm. . I really like that. Um, app though, that fragment thing. It's like an open AI spec editor for like APIs and we've built an tool internally that we've nicknamed High Tide that does something similar, but it doesn't quite have an interface. It's more web, web based and JSON based right now. Oh, is that, it is. Can we look at it again? Yeah, yeah. I was just reading it while you guys were chatting there. I never checked it out before. And it's actually really interesting. Shawn: So this is [00:57:00] kind of like our, um, Hightide. Yeah, it's similar to Hightide. Yeah, you look at the schema. Can you, like, change it? Or you can preview the output. It's like Postman or Insomnia. Gavin: Well, but more around OpenAI spec. Yeah. Or OpenAPI spec. Like The problem we've had with Insomnia and Postman in the past is, first of all, they don't export to OpenAPI, which I find really stupid. Oh, really? Um, they'll import it, of course. They'll let you put your OpenAPI into it, but won't export it for whatever reason, vendor lock in. And, um, i i it's harder just to share just the raw JSON file that describes it, right? Like, whereas our high tied Um, Jason, actually, I think we might use a YAML file now, but we just put those in our repos and everybody opens it and boom, you have the full API spec and you're not, there's no, um, there's no vendor lock in, which I find really interesting and helpful. And there is, I use obsidian notes for my note taking and I saw the, um, one of the creators tweet something the other day about an app and it was, I forget the exact [00:58:00] details of it, but it was more around the idea that, um. Instead of platform file should be the focus file agnostic. So it doesn't matter where you go. If the file can be opened in other places, it just makes it readily available and, um, the ability to just like move it between apps, which I find really intriguing, right? Like you, you can use. Obsidian to make your notes, but then you could just easily move somewhere else because it's just markdown files. And then same with this open API spec thing. It's just a YAML file. Like if I can open it up with whatever tool I'm going to use the tool that I find most useful. I really like that line of thinking. That's Shawn: cool. Can I end this episode with a celebrity shout out? Gavin: Sure. Hold on. You have to tell us who the celebrity is before we allow it. And is it shady? Shawn: Yeah, no, no, no. No, I bumped into Sarah Wayne Kelly, um, White Rabbit Coffee the other day. Um, the, yeah. Is that a singer? [00:59:00] No, she's the, um, I, Gavin: you know, I haven't watched. Is she in The Walking Shawn: Dead? She's in The Walking Dead. She was the mom on season one and two of The Walking Dead. Just one of the greatest television seasons of all time. And, uh, I like, I was, um, embarrassingly, I'm like, hey, I interrupt her and a friend. Um. You get, you must get this all the time, but you look exactly like the mom on season one of Elysse: The Walking Dead. Gavin: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. She's like, I am. Yeah. Yeah. Shawn: And then she just doesn't say anything. She kind of smiles. And then the guy I'm with, um, he goes, no, like exactly. And he pulls out his phone and looks her up and he's like, like this, like, that's you. She's like, yes, it is. But then she was really nice about it. She said like, hi, I'm Sarah, shook her hand, you know, and then I was like, look, I'm sorry to bug you. And then she said, I love your hat. I was wearing my internet plumber hat. So I love your hat and like, I totally was, I don't know if I was starstruck or what, you know, normally I'm pretty good at [01:00:00] like just talking off the cuff, but I was like, Oh yeah, it's just kind of an inside joke. I like, I like did not push the pot at all. Um, so then I tweeted at her, but it's like an official movie star, Twitter account, you know, I'm like, Hey, I totally forgot to offer you a hat. I have a hat for you, um, let me know if you want one and I share the pod. Anyway, I haven't heard back, I blew my opportunity for a celebrity endorsement of the pod. Oh Gavin: man. This is why I should go get coffee. Yeah. Elysse: Yeah. Our only, like, person that could get us to Jeffrey Dean Morgan, who's also on The Walking Shawn: Dead. Who is Jeffrey D. Morgan? Uh, he Elysse: plays Negan. Gavin: Like the motorcycle guy? Uh, Elysse: he's the guy with the bat, Lucille. Oh, Gavin: the Shawn: main, the main character? No, I don't know. It's been a few years. It's also been a few years for me. Gavin: Yeah. Yeah. Elysse: Uh, He's married to, um, [01:01:00] Haley Burton? I don't know any of these people. Hillary Burton? Names that are Caitlin: just going up in the internet. I'm like Elysse: Anyways, they're cool. They're both cool people. Um, if, yeah, that's, that's it. Maybe you're Caitlin: too scary because you're a deep voice and you're sick. You're like, hello. And she was like Shawn: No, this was last week before I got sick. I was, I was a puppy dog. She's Gavin: like, oh, you don't sound squeaky at all. Very badly. Dang. Picking on your president. That's what I'm supposed to do. Elysse: Another, another fun celebrity thing. Um, the Last of Us season two is filming in Britannia Beach just up the road from us. No way. Gavin: No way. Oh, cool. Elysse: Cool. Uh, I don't know. Cause I, like, the second game is all in, well, it's not all, but it's mostly in Seattle. Like they finally make their way to the coast and so it's all the crazy stuff and the second game happens in Seattle. So. Wait, you Caitlin: mean season three, right? Cause the second Elysse: one came out? No, season two. Season two is coming up, but there's only two games. And then there's like, like some [01:02:00] extended stuff, but the second game is all in Seattle. Gavin: So, anyways. One, one more thing before we wrap. If you listened to this whole episode and you heard the book thing, I actually need some ideas. So tweet at us in the thread or in the comments, give me some book ideas that you want me to add to the podcast next week. I need your help. Please. All Shawn: right. That's it. That's it. Let's get to work. That's it. Thanks everyone. Gavin: See ya. Bye. See ya.