April 2, 2024
This week we're joined by our friend Grace Walker, a designer and Webflow developer out of Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Grace recently launched Fast Forward Freelance, a crash course for those looking to dive into the world of freelance design and development work. This episode was a joy to record, and chatting with Grace was truly awesome. We chat Webflow vs. Framer and the pros and cons of both, Visual Electric's huge positive impact on designer assets, custom typeface fonts, and the best springtime non-alcoholic beverages.
Elysse: [00:00:00] That's a huge compliment. I really appreciate that. I like, I got through my first and second year university with StumbleUpon just in the back of like a lecture, just, you know, clicking the stumble button. So, um, yeah, I appreciate that. That's a nice compliment. Grace: Of course. I will, um, show my age a little bit, but my introduction to StumbleUpon was my eighth grade science class. I had like a very nerdy, uh, teacher. And he was like always like sharing links and stuff and he introduced our whole class to StumbleUpon. So that was like my youth. Shawn: Nice. The Grace: internet through StumbleUpon. Shawn: That was when the internet was like super fun and I don't know it felt kind of magical. Um, maybe just like it was our age back then. We were like, I felt like it was magical at the time. Yeah, I spent so much time just exploring. Elysse: Does the internet feel less magical to you now Sean? Shawn: I mean sadly I think so. It's magical. I, I have this feeling with all the professional tools we use nowadays, like, I used to get so stoked when I [00:01:00] get a new Macbook, and I gotta say, like, my black M2 feels pretty rad. Um, but, uh, it's been a while since I've got a new Macbook and didn't just look at it like a tool on my desk, you know? Elysse: Yeah. Shawn: So, some of the magic is maybe lost with being a professional. Elysse: We kind of talked about this on our Monday call too, where, you With like the iPhones the, the changes between like the 14 16 are so minimal that it's like What's the point? Like I'm not getting anything crazy different. I'm just like wasting my money every two years Grace: Yeah, the only like Mac transition that I feel like made a big difference for me was when I Got rid of the touch bar Like I had a Mac that had a touch bar along the top and it was like a fancy fun thing at first But it just became so annoying over time, and I was so glad to like, get a new machine that didn't have that, and that went away, and I was like, oh, this is better. But yeah, there's like, it's so minimal. Yeah. Elysse: Yeah. [00:02:00] Shawn: I feel like Steve Jobs wouldn't have rolled out the touch bar. That just didn't seem very Jobsian, you know? Jobsian. I just made that up. Grace: I never knew how to use it. Like, I never I never really understood the functionality besides like, it would like pop up with like emojis sometimes or like some of the Adobe programs to like scrub through things with the touch bar. But I never used that. Elysse: And it was volume control and stuff too, right? Like it wasn't that those keys were all gone. Yeah. Grace: Yeah. Yeah. Was it that? I think so. Elysse: But like half of it, you're right. Cause half of it was just for like emojis and something else. And then half of them were actual functional keys that were no longer keys. Such a strange thing. Shawn: And like, I'm a fan of physical keys. Um, in my Sprinter van, uh, it's like a display with touchscreen sort of going on for a lot of it. And I really don't like it. Like I want like a physical volume up and down knob, physical, like skip song button. [00:03:00] Um, I don't have like having to navigate a menu to make changes. Elysse: Yeah. This is my number one critique about EV cars, including ours. I hate that they are just screens now. There's no knobs. There's no buttons. I have to focus so hard to, like, do anything on the screen because there's nothing tactical. There's no, you know, when you're in a car and, like, you know the button that you're touching because there's, like, a sensory thing that you have as repetition of the feel of, like, the temperature control or the volume button or whatever. I just, and this is, this sounds like such a crazy complaint. I like, I realize, yeah, I realize what I'm saying. I understand it's a, yeah, I am a part of the problem, but I don't love it. I love a tact, like a button that is tactile and I don't love just screens and cars anymore. I don't think they're productive. I also don't think they're as safe. You gotta, like, take your attention away more often. Grace: I feel like you would both really, really love this. I can't remember what this [00:04:00] guy's name was or where I saw this, but my husband and I watched a YouTube video a while ago of this guy who, um, created a whole, like, I don't know if he, like, converted a bus or a military vehicle or something, but it was basically, like, a turbo, like, camper van. But he was like a mechanical engineer or some kind of like tinkerer basically and every single knob or button on the whole thing was like a very tactile like special little button And it was so cool. And it was like the like the mechanical engineering nerd got his hands loose on a on like a VM conversion And it was so cool. I can't remember. It was probably like a couple years ago. I think I watched that Shawn: video like um I've built a couple of vans now and, uh, I nerd out on all content, all van content. Grace: Yes. Yeah. I was, I was like, you've probably seen it. Shawn: There's a great bill. Actually. Did you build there? Maybe I'm getting confused. Um, Yama vans. [00:05:00] Does that ring a bell? You did build their website. Grace: I did build their website and I just did a refresh of it. They now have like a searchable gallery on their build spotlight. Shawn: They're my favorite van builder in Canada. Like they do inspiration. Grace: Stunning work. They're going, I'm going to an event with them on Thursday night. They're unveiling their new show van, um, on, they have a new partnership with a dealership in Calgary. Um, and so they're like unveiling their new Sprinter van. It's on their Instagram, but we made some changes to their homepage recently and like some other small updates, but yeah, they have a new, yeah, they have some like fun stuff. Oh, we're like, yes. And now that we're showing this, I'm realizing that that is like cutting off strangely. So. We love some QA live. That's okay. Yeah, this is great. I love Shawn: the mix of Serif and Sans Serif. Uh, the little uppercase links with the under stroke and a lot of really lovely details. Grace: The brand was done by Dotter.[00:06:00] So I can't take credit for that, but, uh, the web has been like a wonderful collaboration over the past couple of years. And they have just like, they have stunning assets. They work with like a really great video team and photographers. And just the documentation that they have, if you go to their build spotlight of, um, all of their projects is like, it's incredible. Um, just like the level of, uh, documentation that they do of every build and yeah. So it's like, it's pretty fun. Shawn: At least I think this is the expensive item of the week. Elysse: Yeah. It's gotta be. Yeah. I am, I wish I had a van. Shawn: You should get one. You, you and Seb seem like, like you guys would be. Happy in a van. Elysse: He's such an overland guy that I'm trying to bring him over. I, I need him to see your van Sean. And then maybe he'll, he's like, Overland seems more convenient. And I'm like, I don't agree with that. . Shawn: I mean, overland you can do. Um, okay, so the new sprinter [00:07:00] vans are all wheel drive. They're not four by four, but if you get like a 2018, um, like in 2019, they switched. Mm-Hmm. So if you get 2018, then you still get the um, previous. Um, model and they have a proper four by four, but they're hard to find now. Cause they're, um, like overland people really like them, really Elysse: want them. All I want to do is wake up in a, like a ski resort parking lot and get first tracks without having to fight for parking in the world. That's all I want it for. Shawn: And like the little diesel heaters you can get for them now. I'm sure Yama is installing them. Um, they keep it so toasty, like. I mean, I've only been down to about, like, minus eight in my van, but, um, it's still, it's toasty. Elysse: That's cool. Um, Grace, thanks for joining us. Um, Sean, I think he, he mentioned this in the email back to you on, or yesterday. He accidentally called you Grace Hopper, which we found out was the first female coder from, like, the [00:08:00] 1930s, which It feels like a little appropriate. Yeah, in some way. Grace: That's a compliment. I'll take it. At least it Shawn: wasn't an embarrassing name or something. I was like Yeah, Elysse: that's a really cool name mess up. But thank you for joining us. Grace Walker, you're a Webflow developer out of Calgary? Is that right? Grace: Yes, I'm an independent designer and Webflow developer. So I design and build marketing sites is basically the synopsis. I Elysse: love that. Shawn: And you have a course, Fast Forward Freelance. We might as well plug that. Um, it's getting rave reviews on Twitter. Grace: Yeah, it's, um, I just put in a bunch of new reviews onto the landing page itself. So the feedback from the first round was honestly pretty incredible. And it felt really validating to like, have put so much thought and effort into this thing. It's basically like a collection of all of the things that I wish I would have known when I started freelancing. And yeah, it was just, it was awesome. Like the first [00:09:00] round, um, it's basically a combination of self serve videos and content and then eight live office hour sessions. Um, so I'm making some changes to the office hour sessions for the next round, which is going to go on sale on April 22nd. Um, I'm hoping to have some fun guests join me for like half of the office hour session. So, um, it'll be pretty fun, but yeah, the reviews have been like fantastic, which just feels. Really warm and fuzzy and nice. So good. Elysse: I love this button also. I love this button so much. Grace: We love big buttons. Did you guys see the mural button on there? They had a marketing site that launched last year. Oh, it's gone now. The button is gone now. But they had this gigantic Get started button and it was so beautiful. Shawn: I believe we shared it in the newsletter. Did we? Okay. We have a thing for buttons every now and then. Yeah, me too. There's a button. Um, the, uh, so fast forward freelance, um, You are also a [00:10:00] Webflow pro partner. What does that mean? Grace: Yeah. So I'm a Webflow expert partner, which, um, I got a couple years ago. And when I like, basically what it is, is like, you're like a certified partner with Webflow, so they recognize that like, you know, a little bit about the platform and, um, they like inspect some of your projects to make sure that you actually know what you're doing. Um, I am hopeful that the program itself will have like a bit of a revitalization because there's been a lot of like, um, just, it's, it's just been slow with the program in general. There's a lot more experts now. So I think that they're just like navigating how to make it a really valuable thing given like the volume of interest and experts now and things like that. But it is just like a fun little like badge to be like, Shawn: nice. That's cool. Do they send you and Grace: they think I'm cool? Shawn: Yeah, that's great. Like, like the old blog role, you used to like throw your pals on the, on the side of [00:11:00] your website, you know? Elysse: Yeah. Shawn: That's showing my age. Um, okay, so I didn't mean to turn this into an interview, but I want to ask you about minimalism. Um, occasionally you share some photos of your very minimalist home on Twitter. Yes. And, uh, I, I'm an aspiring minimalist, but I like stuff too much. So, um, my home has stuff in it, but, um, it, uh, yeah, anyway, tell us about that. Grace: Yeah. There is also a lot of stuff in my home as well, but it's usually just hidden behind cabinets and cupboards. Um, but yeah, I don't know. People always ask me about this and, um, it's, it's a little bit funny because I, somebody asked me about this last week and they're like, Oh, do you like, what kind of content do you consume about organizing and things like that? yeah, And honestly, I don't. And I think that that's like the best part of it, is that it's just become something in my life that is really just in the background. Like, it's just like a habitual way that we live and we just like [00:12:00] don't have a lot of stuff and everything that comes into the house is very functional. Um, mostly from kind of like shared value, I guess, between my husband and I, of just like having a really tidy space. But I think he is the primary driver of it. I am just like the benefactor of his tidiness. Uh, so yeah, it's nice though, but it is like, I think especially the way that I frame minimalism as like someone who does really creative work is that it's a really nice break at the end of the day when I've spent like the entire day looking at screens and consuming content and like looking at like all of this wild stuff to then like be in a space that is just very very visually calm so i think that's like a nice compliment to my work but Elysse: yeah it is nice Shawn: my anecdote um my driver toward minimalism goes back to childhood when like My mom would be stressed out in a messy house and make us all frantically clean. And it wasn't until like everything was spotless, that she [00:13:00] would sit on the couch with a cup of coffee and a book, and just be in the perfect mood. And like us kids would just know that mom was so happy, you know? And I think like something about getting to that like state of perfection, where everything is clean and put away, and it's almost like a blank canvas for, for her. Uh, your next adventure, you know, like, what are we going to do now? We can pull out the Lego, the house is clean. Um, so anyway, I Elysse: was just going to say, Sean, I think we had the same mother. I don't know if it's like a boomer thing or I don't know, but we had the same mother. It's like the baseboards too, but for company, you're like, no, one's really, no, one's going to look. No one cares about Grace: that. Elysse: Yeah. No one's going to like wipe their finger along the baseboard and be like, that's too bad. Grace: But I did have someone come over yesterday and like one of my husband's friends was over, just like dropped by. And as he was over, I was like noticing all the dust in our house. And I got on a Swiffer and I was like Swiffering while he was over. But you only notice it. Elysse: The dog [00:14:00] hair, because like, no matter how much you vacuum, there will always be dog hair. Like I could clean. Everything and the house will be spotless for five minutes and then I'll see a little tumbleweed of like a fluff and I'm like What the heck? How did this happen so fast? Shawn: My wife and I I may have shared this anecdote before but like My wife and I have very different like i'm tidy and she is clean So say you have like an hour before company is coming over It'll be like, Oh, we got to clean up. So I'll immediately start collecting things and she'll like go to the fridge and start wiping down the shelves. I'm like, nobody's opening the fridge door. She's like, you said we need to clean, you know? I'm like, Oh, okay. We just, Elysse: okay. I'm going to call Seb out on this podcast. So we had to do a big clean a few weeks ago. Cause we've been doing a fireplace renovation. And he comes home from work early one day. I think he gets home like, I got him like 4. 30, which for him is really early. Um, and I was out doing some stuff, uh, in the [00:15:00] evening. And I was like, okay, like when you get home, you can start cleaning and like, we'll be done by eight. And he was like, great, got this. And I get home and there was maybe four hours that have gone by by the time that he got home to start cleaning to the time where I got home. And he was still like tinkering on the fireplace. And I was like, what have you been doing? I was like, we had to clean the house, but like, you're rearranging the, like the fireplace, like logs on the inside. It's like, this wasn't important. This wasn't the thing we had to clean for four hours. I was endearing and very funny all at the same time. Grace: Oh man, but the fireplace renovation will be worth it. It looks great. Yeah, it looks Elysse: excellent, but it was just in that moment, I was like, no one's going to look at the bricks and the fireplace to see if they've been rearranged. Shawn: That's so funny. You notice so many things about your own space, like, that I think other people just don't notice. Elysse: Yeah, that's true. Shawn: Should we click some links or what? Elysse: Let's get into it. Um, this first [00:16:00] one's datalands. co. Uh, one of our, actually our head of design shared this. Um, it's a beautiful website. Grace: Yeah, they, I like, I am obsessed with datalands. I think that they are so cool. And just like the work that they do. Um, and so it was like really fun to see their new site, especially like the Lululemon studio stuff. Um, that was a project that I think Kevin Toohey Led like the creative direction. Kevin too, he's just like incredible, but data lands did like the data viz stuff for it and it's just like, I feel like a product like this is so cool because the interface like is the product and the visualization is like such an important part of that. So this one, I was just like, Oh man, this is tasty. Elysse: Yeah. It's beautiful. Shawn: So cool. I think we bid on this project and lost it. Really? Yeah, well, um, [00:17:00] Nick came from the vacuum. And they had this mirror, um, as a, Oh, I might be thinking of a competitive product. No, it is the one that Lululemon acquired. Anyway, so, um, Nick had done a bunch of work on this product. prior to the vacuum, um, closing its doors. Um, they, and then Lululemon acquired the product and then Nick got the opportunity to continue bidding on it when he came to us as head of design. Elysse: Oh, cool. Shawn: And then I'm pretty sure we went through a couple of interviews trying to win this work. Um, but, uh, kudos to Kevin Tovey and DataLens for snagging that one. I don't mind losing to like rad people. Um, it's, it's only when like you find out who won the bid and you're like, what? You know? Grace: Yeah. I feel like when you like find out someone won the bid over you and you're like stoked on the work. It's like, that's a good feeling. It's like, yeah. It was good anyway. Shawn: Totally. I can, I can be happy [00:18:00] for people doing rad work. Elysse: Is this like the new fitness thing? Like, is this like a, can I buy it? Can a normal person buy this or is this just for Lulu stores? Grace: I think you can buy them. They were Shawn: selling it, like, um, it was being sold before Lululemon bought it, so I'd be surprised if you couldn't buy it on this page somewhere. Like, interesting. Grace: It was formerly called Mirror. Elysse: So it's now Lululemon Studio Mirror. So yeah, that's interesting. Shawn: Yeah, and I think they just shortened it to Lululemon Studio. Of course, the mirror part is still in the URL. Yeah, Elysse: interesting. Shawn: Pretty cool. Like. Basically like a workout mirror that watches you and helps you improve. Yeah, Elysse: it's so future. Shawn: It's pretty sexy, like the, the little stand and the, the rounded edge. Yeah, like all this. Grace: Yeah, it's pretty fun. I think this site is also built in Framer. Um, I saw that on Twitter, that they built it on Framer. I could be [00:19:00] wrong, but. I probably should have inspected it before I said that. Elysse: It's okay, we don't fact check here. Grace: Okay, good. No fact checking, just vibes. Nope. That's, that's good. It is, it is built on framework. Elysse: Yeah, just vibes. We did make a comment about Rivian like a few weeks ago, and someone actually left us a comment and corrected us about the Rivian chargers. Yeah, I was like, oh, I was nice. That's great. Shawn: Thanks. One Elysse: of our 20 Shawn: listeners is really on it. Elysse: Yeah, I appreciate Shawn: it. Elysse: Tattlelands. That's it. Um, I love this site. Bada Shawn: boom apparel, accessories, prints, badaboom studio. com. Elysse: It's so cool. It's very cool. And I feel like we're always on the hunt for really nice quality apparel for our merch. Like we always want something that's, I don't know, like just the quality is really beautiful and the embroidery is nice or [00:20:00] the screen printing is really nice. And so I just really love this. Grace: Yeah, the, just like the designs were just like so fun and like, I already said tasty to describe things, but I feel like that's like my go to and I'm just like, this is special and fun. But I think like the coolest thing about this site, like obviously like the products are really, really cool, but the menu on this site too, like the top left menu of um, like how that works, like, like the dropdown of that, like that is so fun. And the, the like variables in the glyphs. On hover is really cool. Elysse: Mm-Hmm? . Yeah. It is super nice. Shawn: Love it. I like how throwback it all looks too like Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. It's like definitely reaching into the seventies and eighties. Elysse: Yeah. These are some cool shirts. I think they're also Canadian. They are. Are they really cool? Oh, Montreal, I think. Yeah. Where'd you see that? Somewhere Grace: on there. Somewhere. Elysse: I think it's Montreal. Yeah. [00:21:00] Um, Grace: info on the bottom of their homepage. A lot of cool stuff. Shawn: A friend and I were chatting about like, what is the career path for an illustrator, a freelance illustrator? Like, do you just remain a freelance illustrator for ever and retire one day? Um, I think this is like a cool career path for a freelance illustrator. Start up a little studio and like make rad, like, objects. Grace: Yeah. Because I feel like that serves a dual purpose also. It's like, yes, those are objects that you can buy, and that is very cool. But it's also like, kind of a portfolio on its own. Like, if somebody wanted to like, collaborate with you or something else, like, it's very clear that you're actively doing work. Yeah. Um, and like, obviously know how to like, source products. Like, yeah, I feel like that's like, cool all around. Shawn: Totally. And also like, it creates some kind of residual revenue. Um, so your income isn't just totally attached to the hours you're putting in necessarily if [00:22:00] people are buying the products. Grace: Yeah. Um, Joshua Ariza, I feel like that's kind of like his model with CHOMP. Um, is that his last name? I don't know if I butchered that. I think you got it. Shawn: Yeah, we must follow all the same people on Twitter. Yeah, I think we Grace: do. Yeah, Joshua Ariza has um, his brand called CHOMP and he does like graphic tees and other stuff. Um, but yeah, I feel like that's like the same kind of vibe of like an illustrator creating products that show their skills and like is a residual income and like it's just like a cool thing on its own. But he does other illustration work as well. Shawn: Rad. Boy, are graphic tees back? Like, I feel like graphic tees are back. I fell off them hard like a decade ago and then was just wearing plain tees and then my wife like bought me this one at a thrift store. It's so faded. You can't even tell what it is, [00:23:00] but it says designated driver on it, which I thought was kind of funny. Um, and, uh, I'm like, Oh, like maybe graphic teaser back. Grace: Yeah. I feel like post pandemic, everyone's just kind of like ready to have a little bit more fun in their life. Now. Shawn: Oh yeah. Good point. Grace: Everything was like, so like, even like minimalism, like talking about that, like, I feel like that was such a, like, like having, like a very stripped back, like purposeful, functional life was like very much a thing. And now I'm seeing like so much more color and illustration and like graphic tees and like the girlies on Instagram are like, have like bright outfits and it's like, it's fun. Like I love it. Elysse: Yeah, I agree. This is another one that I love. I have a few shirts from them. This is cool. Yeah. The dead inside with like, uh, like a dead, what is that? Opossum or something. Yeah. So cute. I have another one that says, oh gosh, it's so funny. Uh, what is it? Anyways, it's like, uh, I don't know, just like a funny little like girl shirt, but they're [00:24:00] great. Yeah. It's just like cry sometimes or something. I don't know. It's very funny. Yeah. They're great. Super fun. I love Grace: a graphic tee that like, isn't obvious. Like, I feel like these are just like from a distance. They're just like, that's a cool vibe, but then you get up and you like read it. And then it's like, like a, like an inside joke and it feels like a more personal thing. I like that. Elysse: Yeah, I agree. Yeah. They're so fun. Yeah. These are definitely coming back. I think they're just so cool. Anyways. Um, I guess like as spring approaches, we're getting into this, we did this last year. We went on like a non alcoholic beverage kick. Uh, I think everyone's still maybe on it a little bit, but this is another one. I think this is Katy Perry's non alcoholic beverage. Shawn: Oh, no way. Yeah, Elysse: it's beautiful. Shawn: DeSoy. Did I pronounce that right? Grace: I feel like in like celebrities turn like 35 and they either pick like a skincare [00:25:00] brand or like beverage company or like something to like do or if you're Kylie Jenner, you do both. Yeah. Um, but it's cool. It's like the brand I think feels like very personally aligned like a Katy Perry just like pop summer fun vibe. Elysse: Also the colors like this is such a beautiful color contrast. Same with these. Grace: I wonder who did that, like who they hired for the brand. Elysse: That's a good question. I, I am pro, um, non alcoholic cocktails like this. What I don't love is the non alcoholic spirits. Have you guys ever tried those? Yeah, I don't like them. They're just Grace: like really Elysse: weird. It's like, Grace: just, you don't need that. Like, You don't need it. Just have some gin. Elysse: Just a little. Grace: Or just have a fruity bev. Like, it's fine. I have been. Oh, yeah. No, I was going to say I, I like love non alcoholic beverages. I feel like like the kombucha ones are really [00:26:00] fun and like, just like the like cocktail replacements and things like that. But my cheap girl version of this is that near beer or like non alcoholic beer, we call it near beer in mine, um, is very, like we've been like buying near beer for ages. I feel like that's just like something that my has been really. Likes to drink. Um, but near beer, mixed with lemonade is like the perfect, like cheap girl non-alcoholic cocktail vibe. Like, it's like a Ooh, Elysse: yeah. It's Grace: really good. Like a non-alcoholic shandy. It's, it's fun actually. Elysse: I used to sometimes take a beer and mix it with kombucha, so do like a half and half and it was kinda like a sour. Interesting. Like make your own sour kind of thing. Yeah. That's fun. Um, I might have to try that. Not beer. I drank near Shawn: beer on the regular, like at least three a week. Yeah. Um. And, uh, lately, which ones do I like? They're, um, Grace: There's so many now. Shawn: coming to me. Yeah, it's, they, I keep picking them up at my local grocery store and I'm [00:27:00] like, I'm into them. They have like a, a Surfside lager or something. It's just a nice, fresh lager. Elysse: Is it the nonies? Those ones are great. It's Shawn: not the, I always thought that was non y. Maybe Elysse: it's non y. Shawn: As in like, non alcoholic, but, um, the, uh, it's not those. I can't find those locally. You guys have a much better snack selection in Squamish than we do in Nanaimo, I've noticed. Yeah, I have snack envy. Um, Grace, we have a chips channel in our company Slack. And, um, Elyse is just crushing it with the, uh, chip selection. Grace: Oh, what's like a highlight recently? What's like a, what's the chip of the week? Elysse: We get these chips. I think they're from the UK. They're called Piper's. Yeah. They're really good. Um, there's nothing like they're, they're kind of like a kettle chip. So they're hard, but the flavor is just so interesting. Like there's a rosemary and like chive or something, which is like, Not really a normal chip flavor, but they're really nice. [00:28:00] And we can't find them anywhere else. I could find them on Amazon, but it's like a 50 like ship to like, they come right from the UK, but we get them from this like, uh, custom grocer. Like, you know, those like grocery stores that are like, we're going to import everything from Italy and it's going to be marked up by like more than it needs to be. So it's one of those stores. Um, but it's funny. Cause I'll get, I post in the chip channel so often, but I'll get a bag of chips. I'm not a big chip girl. And I'll have like one or two and then my partner will just have to finish the bag. So I'm ha I get them for like the novelty of trying like a couple. And then I'm like, I don't want these anymore. So we have so many chips in the house now with just clips on them. Cause that's all I want to do is like try one or two and then you just put them away. Grace: Yeah. I feel like, I feel like a kindred spirit with you. I have like a whole. Like, pantry section that is just chips and half of them are open. And there's like, probably like six bags that are open right now. Like, I love chips. Yeah. Shawn: I [00:29:00] have chips on my desk right now. Grace: Man. I guess you're like phases with chips. But the best, okay, I didn't realize that I, so I listened to an interview with like, I think it was Gordon Ramsay or something. And somebody was asking him like, what's your favorite like, snack or something like that. And he was like, Oh, he was giving like really pretentious answers. And then the interviewer kept pushing him and was like, okay, but like, what do you actually grab? And he admitted to like putting like M& Ms and like all this other stuff in a bowl and having like a homemade trail mix. And I didn't realize that you could just like do that as an adult. So now when I have chips, I put like three different kinds of chips in a bowl. I do that. And it's just like a fun party mix. Shawn: My friends made fun of me for it at jam on Saturday night. Like, cause I got some originals. It's the best. Why wouldn't you? Yeah. Some like original kettle cooked ones and then I mix them with just standard old dutch barbecue and i'm like You can't eat too much of either, but together they're perfect. Grace: It's great. And they're Shawn: like, oh my God, you're like making blends, you know? Grace: Artisanal Elysse: [00:30:00] chip blends. Yeah, artisanal blends. Love it. Shawn: Yeah. I Elysse: think Doritos has that where they have like a party, a party blend where it's like But I don't want them to come Grace: in the same bag because then they all mix together. Okay, that's fair. I want it to be like a last minute like thing, you know? That's totally fair. Elysse: Yeah, yeah, I, I, yeah, I think that's actually a very fair statement. Shawn: And there's always something in a mix that you don't like. Like for me, it's the pretzel sticks that come in some of those mixes. I'm like, I don't eat those. Elysse: Give me just the pretzels. Like I will buy a bag of just pretzels. Love them. Shawn: To me, pretzels need like an accompaniment. Like they need like a yogurt dip or something. Like Elysse: just, Shawn: I don't know. They're just not enough on their own. Questionable. Elysse: Yeah, that's fair. Um, evolution of the scroll bar. It's kind of fun. Shawn: Scrollbars. mattoseb. com. Grace: I saw this and I was like, this is a cutie website. Like this is just, this is a cutie. I love it. Elysse: Yeah. We've thrown like some of these retro, um, [00:31:00] sites in here to see, cause like they are coming back like that bonsai website, Sean, there's like a bonsai nursery in Victoria or like Saanich or something. And the website is like, it looks like it's from 1996. They did update it like last year. So they're just like choosing to go with this vibe of like, everything looks really dated, like the first website that was ever created kind of thing. But it's coming back. Shawn: I don't feel like it's a sartorial, excuse me, a sartorial choice. Like, I don't think they chose that design specifically. I imagine this is me making it up in my brain, but I imagine like a boomer aged. Store proprietor who has an old copy of like Windows Dreamweaver and they're making this website themselves. And that's just the vibe that comes out. And we're all like, Oh, it's so retro and like, uh, anti designed, you know? Grace: But in reality, it was just like, that's what [00:32:00] I did. I Shawn: feel like it's like, I'm envisioning my dad, you know, just like messing with like some make your own website software and launching his like His nursery, uh, web page. Grace: I should find it. I'm kicking myself for like not including a retro scroll bar like this. I did a site for um, Jessica Rosenberg, who's a creative director, um, last year, just about a year ago, and we did something like kind of retro and like used like a bitmap typeface. Like it's really fun, but I'm like, man, why didn't we do like a cool scroll bar? Yeah. Oh my gosh, look at this. Elysse: But this is like coming back. It's we, we compared it to like brutalism, like there's like modern brutalism and like, there's a whole bunch of stuff that's just like resurfacing as like fun design trends. And this feels like one of those, like, I don't know, it feels like it could be in that wavelength. I feel like Grace: you could do something like this very purposefully and have it be really, really cool. Elysse: Like what's this gap [00:33:00] for? Why is this here? BR, Shawn: BR, BR, BR. Elysse: Yeah. Anyways. Super funny. Um, I love this. I think it's so, this reminds me of those, um, like Phillips sun lamps. When I wake up in the morning and I Shawn: thought, is this not a sun lamp website? Elysse: It's just a font. This Grace: is like a type spec website. This is like a foundry, like type specimen site. It's just Elysse: so nice. Grace: When I saw this, I thought that it looked like, um, like Mediterranean sci fi. Elysse: Totally. Yeah. It has that soft scroll too, remember the weird soft scroll website that we were on Sean? Shawn: Yeah, it Elysse: has that but it's just so like everything is beautiful. Shawn: This is gorgeous did the font designer make the website or is this just like a Amazing collaboration between like the the type designer and it's a good question. Yeah, [00:34:00] Elysse: it's Shawn: beautiful. I'm Grace: curious the hero section too, like like the whole thing is just beautiful and like what a fun collaboration like if They did work with a 3d person to do, uh, the graphic components of it. Like, man, that would be a dream project. Like, can you imagine being that 3d designer who was just like, Oh, can you do some like cool, like scenes in this, like, Mediterranean sci fi vibe that we have for this typeface? Like, how cool is that? Shawn: So cool. Is, is that your mouse doing that, um, effect or is it an animation that's playing? Elysse: Um, I'm doing it. Shawn: Cool. So it's like a hover. Yeah. Yeah. Like a mask. Elysse: Yeah, I think it's really cool. Awesome. Shawn: Anyways, the web is getting fun again. Okay. I think it's getting fun. This is so Grace: fun. The hero section too, like when you go back to the hero, there's like that like sun ball, um, but you can like interact with it [00:35:00] and it reminded like when it, yeah, like, like drag your mouse over it. And then when it's sitting in that fountain, it feels like a Kugel fountain. I don't know if you've seen one of those, like, In real life, they're like the giant, like, granite balls that sit on top of water and then they, like, rotate. Shawn: And there's usually, like, water running down the ball? Grace: Yeah, but it felt like that. It was like, this is like a, like a digital, like a, like a digital Klugel fountain. It was really cool. Shawn: Is there meant to be a gap between the purchase button and the arrow, or is that an intentional choice? Oh, I see. It's intentional. Grace: It, like, animates it. Ugh. Elysse: How much is it? We usually have an expensive item this week or every week, but Shawn: it was the Sprinter van. Elysse: Yeah. Shawn: It's going to be hard to top 200 K or whatever that van costs. Grace: To be fair. That was not on like the, the link list. So that was like a, Shawn: Oh, that's a freestyle. Grace: It was a freestyle expensive item. I mean, it's not, Elysse: not Shawn: cheap. Fonts are not [00:36:00] cheap. Like, um, we, we buy them on the regular and it's always like, Oh, okay. We're going to build that to the client. Elysse: Whoa. Where's the price Grace: on that? Elysse: TIL. Um, oh, you guys can't see it. That's weird. There's a drop down when I click. So up to one employee is 200 euro, so like 400 Canadian. Shawn: Oh, that's a steal. Elysse: Up to 25, it's 500. You can go all the way up to 10, 000 and it's 8, 000 euro, which seems a lot. It seems like a lot. Grace: Is that normal? It's detailed work. I don't know. I feel like, like, typefaces and things that, like, have licenses attached to them are just, it's like a pricing structure that I don't fully understand. I respect it. I just don't know how I would do it. Yeah. Shawn: I've seen them where they, like, bill you based on the amount of traffic your website will get. Oh yeah. It's like, how many visitors do you get per month? And then it's like a sliding scale on the price of the month. [00:37:00] Elysse: Oh, so cool. Just beautiful. Anyways. This next one is It's more AI y, so it's the like deepfake stuff. Shawn: Oh yeah, Adrienne was showing me this. So you give it a photo. What is this, um, what's it actually called? The Trust Nothing EMO, um, I don't know, AI emulator or something? Um, but you give it a photo, and then you record a video of yourself talking, and it will like, put your voice, On the photo and make the photo come to life. Elysse: It's spooky. Oh my gosh. I don't love it. Shawn: Super spooky You can't trust anything on the internet anymore. Like you literally Like you see a video chances are it's AI generated Elysse: I mean this still looks a little janky right like you can still see there's some facial things that aren't like normal human face things But [00:38:00] it's pretty darn close Grace: Yeah, it's a little bit funky for sure, but I feel like You I feel like the magic spot with probably things that are going to be fake that people don't realize are fake are that they are like 95 percent AI generated and then a human like touched them up. Oh. Yeah. To make them feel like, like they weren't. And that's gonna be where it's like, how do you determine whether that's real or not? And that's like. Yeah. It's cool, but it's so scary. I think it's like more cool. Well, I don't know. That could be very used for very evil purposes, but. Elysse: Have you guys gotten those, um, Phone calls from your bank where it looks like our bank does the like voice recognition for like security. And sometimes I'll get like a random phone call from my, my bank. Um, and I know they're not my bank. Uh, and they'll start like asking me a whole bunch of questions that I just want to answer and I'll hang up. But, uh, I'm curious how like place like financial institutions are going to guarantee [00:39:00] security when like really easy, like voice clips of people can be like modified and. used against them. So anyways, that's just my, Shawn: yeah, it seems like they're going to have to pivot pretty quick off of voice off fingerprint. Yeah, Elysse: it seems a little weird. It's spooky. Anyways, Webflow versus Framer. Oh, code agency. Yeah. Webflow versus Framer, key differences and which one to choose in 2024. Shawn: What's your perspective here, Grace? Grace: I think that they are used for different purposes and I'm like excited that Framer exists. I personally don't use Framer because the demand for my Webflow work is enough that like I just, I haven't had, I haven't prioritized exploring it fully as an option for clients because I like really fully believe in Webflow. But I think that they're, they're suited for different purposes. Like the Dataland site was built on Framer. It's a portfolio site. It doesn't have like a robust CMS of [00:40:00] like collections that are all tied together and like really kind of like complex content structures. So I think for those kind of sites, like, Framer's really cool. Um, and it's pushing Webflow to be better, and it's pushing Framer to be better. And so I think, like, for me, every time that I've, like, looked at Framer and tried to evaluate it on, like, would this work for a client, it's the CMS that just, like, falls for me. And I'm just, like, I can't, I can't build, like, a scalable marketing site for a corporate client, um, without, like, the robust, like, CMS ego of Webflow. Shawn: Interesting. So you are using Webflow as the CMS. Like you, you create like a little database in there. Yeah. And um, forgive my, forgive my like lack of knowledge about Webflow. We've done a few Webflow things for clients. And we actually have some landing pages internally that are Webflow. Um, but that's usually like when we don't have developers available, we'll be like, designer, make us a landing page, you [00:41:00] know? Um, but, um, one thing I found, uh, as an agency owner, um, selling things to clients and then also using, um, these tools ourselves is that it takes us just as long to make the thing in Webflow as it does to make it in code, like after somebody designs it in Figma, And like, it's probably that we're just not very good at it yet, maybe. Or maybe that's just, it's just another path, and it's not really like, saving time. It just has an outcome that's desirable. For example, the CMS, maybe that's the desirable outcome. Grace: Yeah, that seems to be, like, honestly, I think that the CMS is the desirable outcome for Webflow, because they give you, like, that's like the whole point. I think that's like the whole major selling point of Webflow right now to corporate companies is that they have a CMS that they can access so that the marketing team can live fully separate from the engineering team, especially in like a fast moving [00:42:00] product where like they don't want to take engineering resources away from their team. So giving the marketing team like full power and control over the website is like the desired outcome. Um, but I typically spend just as much time building in Webflow as I do designing the site. And, um, the re, like, I can't code. So, like, I don't have the option to code it myself. So, like, I don't know. I just deal with it. Like, that's, like, that is where my skills are. So, I can't, um, like, build it from scratch. It is, it seems to be a desirable thing. So Shawn: interesting. Yeah. So when we have like done like little head to head web flow comparisons, like I've tracked the time of whoever we allocated on the project, um, it has taken just as long to like lay it out in web flow as it has taken, like one of our, you know, top CSS people to like make it in HTML and CSS. [00:43:00] Um, so it's interesting, but I have been told, um, somebody told me this week. Like no way, it takes about half the time. So like it could be that just like maybe we're not fast in Webflow yet. I'm not sure. I gotta keep exploring it though. I'm curious about like all these kind of low code or no code tools. Like I do know as a, what's that thing saying when you have a hammer, like everything looks like a nail. Like I can code, I have a hammer. I just want to, I want to hit all the nails or something, you know, so it's like I want to look at some other tools like maybe Anyway, that's a little rant. Grace: Yeah, it's it's pretty cool. Honestly I feel like there's there's also a lot of different like frameworks coming out for webflow now that Are making it a lot easier to like systematize your builds. Um, I just started a build this weekend. Um, using the framework from no code supply co called mast And they've made really [00:44:00] extensive use of, Webflow has a new like variables feature so they're kind of like moving in the direction of Figma with variables so you can like tie things to different styles, but like it's been the most efficient build setup I've ever had. And just like the scale of the site requires like a lot of detail. Um, and it's been really fun to like use that to set up new stuff. Shawn: So when you say like Webflow framework, my brain just goes to code. So what is a Webflow framework? Is it like a design system, like pre made components? Grace: No. So, well, some of them are. So there's a few common, this is like a very specific tangent, but there's a few different like popular frameworks with Webflow. The first one that like, the big one that came out first is Client First from ThinSuite. And that kind of like is a style system because it's really heavily used by Reloom. Um, I don't know if you've seen like relooms, like AI tools, like they're, uh, they're wireframe builders or sitemap builder and stuff like [00:45:00] that, but they use client first, I think, um, so you can basically copy and paste prebuilt components from the reloom library into your Webflow project. And so in that sense, it's kind of a framework, the client first one, but Mast is like a really interesting departure from that because it's not, It is a way to approach building in Webflow. It does not dictate what you can build. And there's no pre built components. It's basically just like a column system, um, and like a convention for like naming and styling and things like that. So the end outcome, like you wouldn't, like you wouldn't be able to tell, Oh, that's like a pre built thing. Cause it's not, it's fully custom. Um, but it's just like the way that you're naming your classes and structuring your build and, and all of that. Um, which is. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of them, like lots of independent people launch their own. Edgar Allen has their own framework called Knockout. Um, I think I saw one from Jan Losert yesterday or Jan Losert. Um, but yeah, they're, they're [00:46:00] like a pretty popular thing coming out. Shawn: Cool. Elysse: Um. So Grace: cool. Shawn: A new way to use computers. This is openinterpreter. com. Elysse: I don't know who shared this. Shawn: Use your apps. So it's like Google Home, but smart. Grace: Yes, basically, if you watch the video is long, but it's really cool. Um, and it basically seems like a kind of like pod that you have that can tie in with your computer. Um, and you can train it to do things. So like in the video, they do an example where, um, they teach it to like, send a Slack message. So you go through like step by step and you like teach this thing, how to do a particular task. And then you can repeat that task over and over again. But the promo video itself, like, look how cool this like. promo section is. It's like so like early 2000s nostalgic. It's like, like tying into like flip phones and like that, like whole new like era of tech. And it, oh man, this is [00:47:00] just, it's so cool. Wow. Shawn: Oh wow. It's just like a little disc thing. Grace: Yeah. Shawn: Cool. I like it. I want it. Um, if Gavin was on the podcast this morning, he couldn't make it this morning, but he would buy it. He'd be pulling out his wallet. Is there an order? But Elysse: I don't know. There's not, I can't do a whole lot. Yeah, the site was Grace: like a little bit, um, um, it, in the video, I think they mentioned that, um, you can apply to get like dev access. But right now I think you can like buy the little pod and it will tie into, um, open interpreters hosted environment. So like you can still talk to it, but it's just Going somewhere else. I don't know fully. Shawn: That's so cool. Grace: How do I Elysse: buy you? I want to buy one. Give Shawn: it Elysse: to me. Shawn: Yeah. Elysse: I don't know how much you are. Shawn: Pretty rad. Man, things are moving so fast. Like, this, the AI thing is so exciting. I love seeing all these new tools. I even like that humane pin. Um, it's getting [00:48:00] like, mixed press. But I'm like, I don't know, like, let's give all the data to the AI and like, Let's see what happens. I'm definitely an e accelerator, e slash, I don't actually know how to pronounce that. Elysse: The e ac? Shawn: Yeah, e ac. Okay. I like that. Elysse: I think. Um, yeah, this is pretty cool. I would love to know how much it is. Um, I'm just so curious. Very neat. Uh, this is our last one. Uh, visualelectric. com. Ooh. Designed for creatives. Grace: I have my, I brought my visual electric hoodie. Elysse: You guys didn't do Grace: this on Elysse: purpose Grace: for the, no, I know. I just like, I saw it in the links and I was like, Oh my God, I have. Yeah. Anyways, I love visual. I was like stoked on visual electric and like posting about it on Twitter. And so they sent me a hoodie. [00:49:00] Oh, that's rad. It's like a really nice city. They did a good job. It's like very in their brand color. Shawn: So, Essentially, it's like mid journey, but curated, or they, they like It's Grace: basically mid journey with an interface. Like, they have built an interface to generate AI images. And that's the coolest part about it. It's like, it is, so you can use it for free. And I guarantee if you use, if you use it for free, it gives you like a certain number of images per day that you can generate on the free plan. Okay, I hit that limit within like an hour and I was like, oh my god, I have to like I have to do more I have to pay for those things like keep doing it like It's so addicting and I think the coolest part about it is like they have preset styles so you can generate something in like a storybook collage style or like they just introduced like a motion blur style um and you can create your own styles from like images that you like [00:50:00] create and you can create like a style to like generate from it's like oh my gosh this is so cool so cool Shawn: i'm gonna sign up like right after we hop off here well i have a client call but after that Elysse: yeah these Grace: are Elysse: beautiful Grace: i'm using it right now in a client project to generate background images so i'm Um, for this client who has this like really cool, like clean tech, uh, technology. And so we've generated these like background images that are like abstract kind of like textures, um, with Visual Electric. I showed it to my client and they were like, Oh my gosh, this is amazing. This Elysse: is the coolest thing. I love that. Yeah, it's so Shawn: rad. And Elysse: I love that they sent you a hoodie. That's amazing. Yeah, that's sweet. Me Grace: too. They're great. They're like such a, they're such a cool team. Elysse: Where are they based out of? Do you know? Grace: I think their head office is in the Bay Area. Um, but I think they're like remote. Um, the folks that I've talked to are like in, in New York. So [00:51:00] cool. Shawn: Sweet. I love the little animations in the type and like, is that a custom typeface? It's so dope. Grace: I think it is. Um, they mentioned who did the branding on Twitter. Um, but I can't remember who it was. Elysse: And I love it. It's beautiful. Yeah. Very nice. That's it. We're back to, uh, Yammer and fast forward freelance. Shawn: Nice. Here we Elysse: go for today. Yeah. Um, yeah. Grace, thanks for joining us. Uh, and I got a taste for the link email and how we buzz through the podcast. Very casual. Shawn: I love it. I'm so Elysse: glad I was here. Shawn: Are we wrapping? I have two more questions. Yeah, no, we have Elysse: five more minutes so we can keep going. Shawn: We have five minutes. All right, Grace, I wanted to ask you about Studio Forum, an agency that was on your LinkedIn. Um, so do you have agency experience prior to going freelance? Is that like how you cut your teeth? Grace: I did, yeah. So [00:52:00] I graduated from OCAD University and I came back to Calgary because I love mountains and riding my bike. Um, and I got a job at forum two days a week right out of school. It was like a connection that I had. I worked at the city of Calgary for two summers in their creative services department, um, which was like very fun, but that's how I got introduced to Kylie, uh, who's the creative director at forum. And I worked with them like two days a week that summer. And then it turned into four days a week. And I worked with them for three years, um, before I went freelance and it was awesome and I love them so much. And they were like, Just like a wonderful team to work with. Um, it's two women who own the studio and um, have like grown it at various sizes to like contain other designers and project managers and things like that. But they're just like a really great small studio in Calgary. Nice. Shawn: Awesome. Yeah. Shout out to Forum. Studio Forum. I thought it was Studio Forum, but it makes sense that it's Forum. We're like technically Input [00:53:00] Logic. But it's just input, like, logic was just because when you incorporate in Canada, you have to put a description on the corporation, like, Yeah, Grace: isn't that, man, I wanted a different name for my corporation, and the lawyer was like, sorry, you have to have a descriptive term, and I was like, what a bummer. Yeah, Shawn: it's so lame. Yeah, um, cool, so forum, that's rad. Um, agency life is so much different than, like, internal product life. Yeah. That, um, I'm always interested, like, if somebody has, like, flipped from product to agency or started an agency and gone, like, it's almost like the, um, context switching from client to client on the regular is like, I feel like it's mental training for your brain. It's like, it's like doing reps, you know? Um, so I, I always respect, uh, agency experience. Grace: Yeah, no, it's it's definitely a thing. And like I was I was reading a newsletter yesterday. I follow, um, [00:54:00] this woman who started a brand called Machines for Freedom. It was like a cycling brand, kind of like mid 2000s. It was sold to Specialized. And then now it's, um, they sunsetted it, which is like a crime. Um, but she has a new newsletter called Jane Doe, where she's like talking about entrepreneurship and, um, the most recent, um, instance of it, she was talking about how entrepreneurship is an avenue for like self discovery and how, um, like pursuing things in an entrepreneurial way helps you understand yourself better. And I feel like agency work and like the kind of work that I do is basically agency work, even though I'm independent. Um, like you're just doing so many things all the time and it teaches you so much about yourself. Um, and it's like, it is, it is mental training for your brain, I think, like just the context switching, like you said, and like the amount of interactions that you have with people and all of the decisions, like there's thousands of decisions that go into a website, um, and all of those things, like teach you more about yourself and the work that you want to do [00:55:00] and how to make your work better. And it's like, it's the coolest thing. I love working on so many projects at a time, like, well, not at a time, but like in a year. Yeah. And like, yeah, it's cool. Shawn: I need variety. Like there's members of the team who are happier when they get a longer stint on a project. And then there's members of the team who crave variety. I made the mistake in growing the agency early on thinking that everybody wanted variety. Um, and I'm like, Oh yeah, no, if you've been on a project for a month, I'm going to pull you off and put you on something else, you know? And like, some people really want like a few months into a project, whereas I'm like, I don't know. I get bored so easily call it ADD. Um, okay. My last question, we got two minutes left. Um, what kind of bike do you have and what kind of cycling do you do? Grace: Oh my goodness. Okay. I just got a new road bike. I got a new Madone SLR nine. It is like all the way. I'm so excited about it. Um, I. [00:56:00] I'm like, not, I'm turning 30 in a couple months. And so I was like, I'm 30, like I'm fit. Like I'm never gonna have this opportunity to get in my life. Like why not get Mel the way bike? And so I am like planning my work this summer around spending more time on my bike and I, I love that. Absolutely stoked, but that's cool. Um, yeah. Honestly, we do a lot of riding around the city too. Um, my husband works at a bike shop, which is like, Shawn: oh, that's sweet. Grace: It's like a lifestyle job for our life. Um, but we do a lot of riding around the city on flat bar hybrid bikes. That's like my daily kind of bike, but we just like cut through the city. Calgary has like the most bike paths, uh, the longest bike path system in North America. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Um, and so we can do city loops on our hybrids, um, which is like a much more, it's just like a better suited bike for the path. Like I wouldn't want to ride like a race bike on the bike path. Um, but yeah, it's fun. I love it. Elysse: Are you going to do like a Grand [00:57:00] Fondo or something? Or? Grace: I used to race locally, like doing, um, like crits and road races and things like that. Um, but, um, I would have like anxiety, stomach aches, like an entire week before a race and it's just like, it doesn't like fit with my personality. I love riding and I love going fast. And like, like our whole life is like training to ride bikes. I love that. But it just makes me so anxious to like do events. Um, yeah, so We go fast just the two of us on our own. Cool. I love that Shawn: Last summer I bought a canyon grail Seven the it's like a gravel bike um Canyon is like this dtc german bike brand. Elysse: Yeah, Shawn: um, and uh, I was like oohing and ahhing over this bike for At least a year before I bought it Um, so I'm pretty stoked to have like a gravel bike. That's my road bike. Essentially. It's like my my daily Rider [00:58:00] now. I mostly use it to like ride my two year old to the store Elysse: Yeah, that's fair but Shawn: the hills are pretty grueling last night I was like going uphill with her in the back like It's so funny. Yeah Grace: Yeah, and you guys can ride bikes now at like in march and i'm waiting for two feet of snow to melt Oh, man It's Elysse: crazy Grace: This is the time of year, Shawn: like, I get to gloat to all my relatives in Saskatchewan. Yeah. It certainly has the rest of Canada beat in springtime. It really does. Elysse: Although, I can still go skiing this weekend, so I'm pretty happy with that. As long as it stays in the mountains for me, I'm good until, like, yeah, that's good. Vancouver Grace: is like, Vancouver's got it all. My best friend did a, like a, overnight backcountry trip last weekend near Whistler, and, yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. Yay! But she like, lives in North Van and it's like, beautiful flowers, and I'm just like, man, it seems so nice. I'm jealous. Yeah, Elysse: they're, we Squamish, that's where, um, I am, we still have snow, like, pretty [00:59:00] heavily in the Alpine, but that's wild that they have, like, gone camping already. Grace: Good for them. Yeah, she did, like, no, like, it was like a ski trip. They did, like, an overnight ski trip. Oh, Elysse: it was a ski trip. Okay, cool. Yeah. That makes more sense. Okay. No, they weren't, yeah. It's like, where? Tell me. Where are you Shawn: going? Do we have a client call two minutes ago? Elysse: We should probably jump. Shawn: Yeah. Yeah. . Elysse: Yeah. Shawn: Okay. See you guys later. This been awesome. Thank you for joining us. Thanks so much. Talk to you soon. Yeah. Elysse: Bye. [01:00:00] Bye.